USF Invitational
09/08/2013 8:17:05 AM
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Wow- looking thru the results from what I was told was a soggy sloppy course and I'm seeing finishers in the top 10 that are PR-ing by 30 seconds, and veterans PR-ing over their best ever times run on a track? Seems like an awfully fast first race of the season.
Wow- looking thru the results from what I was told was a soggy sloppy course and I'm seeing finishers in the top 10 that are PR-ing by 30 seconds, and veterans PR-ing over their best ever times run on a track? Seems like an awfully fast first race of the season.
09/08/2013 8:41:46 AM
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One of my former runners who ran in the meet told me it was .14 short
One of my former runners who ran in the meet told me it was .14 short
09/08/2013 8:46:16 AM
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I had two former HS kids now running in college that PRed by nearly a minute. I'm sticking with the 2.9 mile argument. Come at me, bro! 8-)B-)
I had two former HS kids now running in college that PRed by nearly a minute. I'm sticking with the 2.9 mile argument. Come at me, bro!
09/08/2013 8:49:54 AM
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@CoachRaposo I had former runners in the race, too. Completely agree. Don't know how short, but def short.
@CoachRaposo I had former runners in the race, too. Completely agree. Don't know how short, but def short.
09/08/2013 8:53:07 AM
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more confirmation on short course on my former runners had at 2.9 and Mr Brenner said it was 3 miler,
more confirmation on short course on my former runners had at 2.9 and Mr Brenner said it was 3 miler,
09/08/2013 11:28:38 AM
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Obviously short course, most equaled or set new pr's by 30-45 seconds. Too early in the season for these performance levels... too bad for those athletes that ran their heart out that the meet directors couldn't be bothered to correctly measure a course. I guess USF gets no love this season... try harder guys.
Obviously short course, most equaled or set new pr's by 30-45 seconds. Too early in the season for these performance levels... too bad for those athletes that ran their heart out that the meet directors couldn't be bothered to correctly measure a course. I guess USF gets no love this season... try harder guys.
09/08/2013 11:54:16 AM
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the problem was the supervision on the course was not present, the layout was not guarded off and corners were cut often.
the problem was the supervision on the course was not present, the layout was not guarded off and corners were cut often.
09/08/2013 1:39:03 PM
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It's my understanding that due to severe weather in the area the course was moved from an 8K to a 5K last minute so my guess is that most coaches there would definitely agree it was short. Wiregrass had 8 kids running there...
It's my understanding that due to severe weather in the area the course was moved from an 8K to a 5K last minute so my guess is that most coaches there would definitely agree it was short. Wiregrass had 8 kids running there...
09/08/2013 2:03:42 PM
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The race was indeed short, I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles. Others who ran the white line said it was around 3.01.
The race was indeed short, I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles. Others who ran the white line said it was around 3.01.
09/08/2013 2:11:15 PM
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The women were scheduled to run 5k and the men 8k. They combined races both at 5k to beat the weather but the 5k course should have still been correct. It is unfortunate for the runners that it was not as especially the guys don't get many chances to post an accurate 5k time.
The women were scheduled to run 5k and the men 8k. They combined races both at 5k to beat the weather but the 5k course should have still been correct. It is unfortunate for the runners that it was not as especially the guys don't get many chances to post an accurate 5k time.
09/08/2013 2:13:06 PM
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@BFay I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground. I know that most everyone ran a couple feet to the inside of that line, so that could've accounted for the fast times.
@BFay I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground. I know that most everyone ran a couple feet to the inside of that line, so that could've accounted for the fast times.
09/08/2013 2:18:54 PM
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@BFay But unfortunately it definitely was not.
@BFay

But unfortunately it definitely was not.
09/08/2013 2:55:24 PM
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@Pennstate Believe what you want but if you want the truth do the math. The discrepancies can only be accounted for by being 200-300 meters short . Cutting a turn by 2 feet may shorten the course by less than a meter. Were there 200 turns? In general, runners at this time of the season should be just approaching their best times from last season, not setting pr's by 30-60 seconds. I am sure that many were disappointed to find that they ran their best times only to find out the course was inaccurate but then it's time to look at how you did competitively aginst others,which is really what this sport is about. Chalk it up to spilt milk and pour another glass. This one is likely to be listed as a 3.x or 2.9x distance in the database.
@Pennstate Believe what you want but if you want the truth do the math. The discrepancies can only be accounted for by being 200-300 meters short . Cutting a turn by 2 feet may shorten the course by less than a meter. Were there 200 turns? In general, runners at this time of the season should be just approaching their best times from last season, not setting pr's by 30-60 seconds. I am sure that many were disappointed to find that they ran their best times only to find out the course was inaccurate but then it's time to look at how you did competitively aginst others,which is really what this sport is about. Chalk it up to spilt milk and pour another glass. This one is likely to be listed as a 3.x or 2.9x distance in the database.
09/08/2013 3:22:41 PM
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@BFay Either way I believe your argument is irrelevant. The race was delayed well over an hour and at the last second the race officials decided to let us race and changed it from a 8k to a 5k. I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous. Also, I disagree 100% with you. If you saw the course and saw the race you could understand how the course was short. There weren't officials all over the course, once you basically got away from the start you could cut as much as the course as you wanted. There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line. Not to mention the course was pretty muddy causing runners to run around the mud and take shorter paths. Therefore I think if you went and measured the white line you would get really close if not spot on to a 5k.
@BFay Either way I believe your argument is irrelevant. The race was delayed well over an hour and at the last second the race officials decided to let us race and changed it from a 8k to a 5k. I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous.

Also, I disagree 100% with you. If you saw the course and saw the race you could understand how the course was short. There weren't officials all over the course, once you basically got away from the start you could cut as much as the course as you wanted. There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line. Not to mention the course was pretty muddy causing runners to run around the mud and take shorter paths. Therefore I think if you went and measured the white line you would get really close if not spot on to a 5k.
09/08/2013 4:58:19 PM
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[quote=Pennstate]The race was indeed short, I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles. Others who ran the white line said it was around 3.01.[/quote] [quote=Pennstate]@BFay I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground. I know that most everyone ran a couple feet to the inside of that line, so that could've accounted for the fast times.[/quote] [quote=Pennstate]@BFay Either way I believe your argument is irrelevant. The race was delayed well over an hour and at the last second the race officials decided to let us race and changed it from a 8k to a 5k. I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous. Also, I disagree 100% with you. If you saw the course and saw the race you could understand how the course was short. There weren't officials all over the course, once you basically got away from the start you could cut as much as the course as you wanted. There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line. Not to mention the course was pretty muddy causing runners to run around the mud and take shorter paths. Therefore I think if you went and measured the white line you would get really close if not spot on to a 5k.[/quote] @Pennstate Your own posts contradict each other. You say "I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles." You then say "I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground." You then say" There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line." The only conclusion that can be drawn from these posts is that you cut the course. Regardless of whether or not that is true lots of honorable and experienced runners ran the course as it was laid out and it was short. You chose to respond to me, my points are not irrelevant and you are rude and all over the place. I am not looking for an argument. Sorry you are disappointed. Go train for your next race. Good luck.
Pennstate wrote:
The race was indeed short, I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles. Others who ran the white line said it was around 3.01.


Pennstate wrote:
@BFay I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground. I know that most everyone ran a couple feet to the inside of that line, so that could've accounted for the fast times.


Pennstate wrote:
@BFay Either way I believe your argument is irrelevant. The race was delayed well over an hour and at the last second the race officials decided to let us race and changed it from a 8k to a 5k. I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous.

Also, I disagree 100% with you. If you saw the course and saw the race you could understand how the course was short. There weren't officials all over the course, once you basically got away from the start you could cut as much as the course as you wanted. There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line. Not to mention the course was pretty muddy causing runners to run around the mud and take shorter paths. Therefore I think if you went and measured the white line you would get really close if not spot on to a 5k.

@Pennstate
Your own posts contradict each other. You say "I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles." You then say "I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground." You then say" There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line."
The only conclusion that can be drawn from these posts is that you cut the course.
Regardless of whether or not that is true lots of honorable and experienced runners ran the course as it was laid out and it was short.
You chose to respond to me, my points are not irrelevant and you are rude and all over the place. I am not looking for an argument. Sorry you are disappointed. Go train for your next race. Good luck.
09/08/2013 5:37:21 PM
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@Pennstate Your own posts contradict each other. You say "I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles." You then say "I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground." You then say" There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line." The only conclusion that can be drawn from these posts is that you cut the course. Regardless of whether or not that is true lots of honorable and experienced runners ran the course as it was laid out and it was short. You chose to respond to me, my points are not irrelevant and you are rude and all over the place. I am not looking for an argument. Sorry you are disappointed. Go train for your next race. Good luck.[/quote] @BFay My point isn't to fight with you, I was just saying If you were at the race you would understand why the times were so fast. FloridaRun800 said it best "The problem was the supervision on the course was not present, the layout was not guarded off and corners were cut often". It was the same exact course as last year where almost no one Pr'd. I think because of the delay and everything not as many people were present which in turn caused people to cut portions of the course without being noticed. Also, I wasn't trying to be rude, I was just trying to state my point. I apologize.
@Pennstate
Your own posts contradict each other. You say "I ran it and my Garmin said it was 2.95 miles." You then say "I believe the course was a true 5k if and only if you ran the white line painted on the ground." You then say" There were a lot of instances where people were cutting through trees and not running anywhere near the white line."
The only conclusion that can be drawn from these posts is that you cut the course.
Regardless of whether or not that is true lots of honorable and experienced runners ran the course as it was laid out and it was short.
You chose to respond to me, my points are not irrelevant and you are rude and all over the place. I am not looking for an argument. Sorry you are disappointed. Go train for your next race. Good luck.

@BFay My point isn't to fight with you, I was just saying If you were at the race you would understand why the times were so fast. FloridaRun800 said it best "The problem was the supervision on the course was not present, the layout was not guarded off and corners were cut often". It was the same exact course as last year where almost no one Pr'd. I think because of the delay and everything not as many people were present which in turn caused people to cut portions of the course without being noticed. Also, I wasn't trying to be rude, I was just trying to state my point. I apologize.
09/08/2013 5:40:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Kudos for USF and all involved who were able to get the race off before dark, having the patience to wait out the lightning. Teams had traveled pretty far and it would have been a great expense ($ and training interruption)not to run.
Kudos for USF and all involved who were able to get the race off before dark, having the patience to wait out the lightning. Teams had traveled pretty far and it would have been a great expense ($ and training interruption)not to run.
09/08/2013 6:51:27 PM
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@Pennstate When you say "I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous." makes me scratch my head. The meet uses electroic timing, posts team and individual reslts because the race matters. And, by your argument that they dont run 5K's often so it doesn't matter.....Well, they only run the 10k once/twice a season so you'd have to be consisent and say those dont matter- and we all know those re the most important. Right is right, wrong is wrong. At the collegiate level you are dealing with serious competitors not recreation soccer!
@Pennstate
When you say "I wouldn't get too caught up on how far the race actually was. We don't run 5ks very often in college so the fact that everyone's making a big deal because the course was short is ridiculous." makes me scratch my head. The meet uses electroic timing, posts team and individual reslts because the race matters. And, by your argument that they dont run 5K's often so it doesn't matter.....Well, they only run the 10k once/twice a season so you'd have to be consisent and say those dont matter- and we all know those re the most important.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. At the collegiate level you are dealing with serious competitors not recreation soccer!
09/08/2013 6:56:53 PM
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@Pennstate Apology accepted, thank you. We don't have to agree on everything. I have talked to runners and have seen reports from others (including you) who ran it that the course was short. The fast times don't fit. We just need to get the Raposo Wheel(tm) on it and settle it that way.
@Pennstate
Apology accepted, thank you. We don't have to agree on everything. I have talked to runners and have seen reports from others (including you) who ran it that the course was short. The fast times don't fit. We just need to get the Raposo Wheel(tm) on it and settle it that way.
09/08/2013 8:34:31 PM
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Great observation Mike! It's easy to get critical about race management and the outcome of a meet. I am curious how many posters have actually hosted a meet, or even a meet in extreme conditions? SEU hosted a meet on Fri night with a 6:30 start that was pushed to almost 7:45 because of lightning. When teams like Flagler travel 4 hrs to Lakeland, the last thing they want to do is return home without racing. Fortunately they were able to run in a combined race and the mud made for a real fun XC experience!
Great observation Mike!

It's easy to get critical about race management and the outcome of a meet.

I am curious how many posters have actually hosted a meet, or even a meet in extreme conditions?

SEU hosted a meet on Fri night with a 6:30 start that was pushed to almost 7:45 because of lightning.

When teams like Flagler travel 4 hrs to Lakeland, the last thing they want to do is return home without racing.

Fortunately they were able to run in a combined race and the mud made for a real fun XC experience!

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