FHSAA 2A Reg4 - 2 Days - Unfair?
04/26/2017 8:22:01 AM
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2A Reg4 is running the 3200m on the 26th and the remainder on the 27th. How is this fair to the other 3 regions? Also with the extra rest someone could potentially take away a spot in this meet.
2A Reg4 is running the 3200m on the 26th and the remainder on the 27th. How is this fair to the other 3 regions? Also with the extra rest someone could potentially take away a spot in this meet.
04/26/2017 8:35:51 AM
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@rdh824 Did the FHSAA tell the other three regions in 2a they couldn't do the same? Hmmm, State meet 3200 and 1600 on separate days, does that seem fair that some kids will get an extra day rest?
@rdh824 Did the FHSAA tell the other three regions in 2a they couldn't do the same? Hmmm, State meet 3200 and 1600 on separate days, does that seem fair that some kids will get an extra day rest?
04/26/2017 9:21:57 AM
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@coachbutler Regardless if the other regions could do the same, Regionals should be standardized.
@coachbutler
Regardless if the other regions could do the same, Regionals should be standardized.
04/26/2017 9:25:32 AM
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@rdh824 So why not do it all the regions? My neighbor drives a new Rolls, not fair I don't have one? : )
@rdh824

So why not do it all the regions? My neighbor drives a new Rolls, not fair I don't have one? : )
04/26/2017 9:29:32 AM
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@coachbutler I don't live in that part of town. :)
@coachbutler I don't live in that part of town. :)
04/26/2017 9:33:56 AM
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@rdh824 Agree, should be standardized......same schedule for all Region meets.
@rdh824

Agree, should be standardized......same schedule for all Region meets.
04/26/2017 9:45:28 AM
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[quote=rdh824]Also with the extra rest someone could potentially take away a spot in this meet.[/quote] @rdh824 Your quote says it all. Proper rest should be a benefit to all, not a strategy to keep kids from performing at their best. This is the exact reason why we wanted to give distance runners more rest and try to mirror the State Meet Schedule. We followed everything set up by the FHSAA and were given full support for this schedule. We look forward to seeing great performances from all athletes at our meet! Hopefully more Regions will follow our lead next year and give athletes a better chance for maximum performance. Paul Baur Region 4-2A Meet Director Pine Crest School
rdh824 wrote:
Also with the extra rest someone could potentially take away a spot in this meet.


@rdh824 Your quote says it all. Proper rest should be a benefit to all, not a strategy to keep kids from performing at their best. This is the exact reason why we wanted to give distance runners more rest and try to mirror the State Meet Schedule.

We followed everything set up by the FHSAA and were given full support for this schedule. We look forward to seeing great performances from all athletes at our meet!

Hopefully more Regions will follow our lead next year and give athletes a better chance for maximum performance.

Paul Baur
Region 4-2A Meet Director
Pine Crest School
04/26/2017 10:10:53 AM
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@gatorjav Thank you for the reply. However getting back to standardization, Either all the regions do it or they do not. :)
@gatorjav Thank you for the reply. However getting back to standardization, Either all the regions do it or they do not. :)
04/26/2017 10:12:23 AM
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I dont think its fair their are so many fast distance guys in 2a reg 4. Sub 8;00 maybe to get to state in 4 x 800. Can someone fix that?
I dont think its fair their are so many fast distance guys in 2a reg 4. Sub 8;00 maybe to get to state in 4 x 800. Can someone fix that?
04/26/2017 10:14:09 AM
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If FHSAA gave 2A support to do this, why wouldn't they think to also offer it to the other regions this year to! Its all or none! Very UNFAIR!!!
If FHSAA gave 2A support to do this, why wouldn't they think to also offer it to the other regions this year to! Its all or none! Very UNFAIR!!!
04/26/2017 10:15:57 AM
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@eredondo They didn't offer it to us, our region took the "initiative" and asked.
@eredondo They didn't offer it to us, our region took the "initiative" and asked.
04/26/2017 10:33:14 AM
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Just for what it's worth. My Region would not be allowed to do this. The process would go like this: me: Hey FHSAA, can I have a 2 day region? FHSAA: Sure. Then I would post the schedule and every school in the panhandle that has to drive 6 hours to get to the meet would call the FHSAA and complain about the extra cost of their entire area having to stay extra nights in hotels and miss another complete day of classes for a region meet and then the FHSAA would tell me that it sure would be better if I would just do it on one day instead. Many of those kids are already missing 2 days of school for the Region meet when it is on a single day. No chance they would be allowed to miss more school. I feel like it is akin to having two football playoff teams mutually agree that since they both have great offenses and want to score lots of points, that for their second round FHSAA playoff game, they are going to allow each other to have 10 timeouts each half instead of 3. It's more rest for the athletes and everyone can play better. . . . You may respond and say that there is a football rule for only 3 timeouts and there is no rule for a region schedule in track. Correct. And that is why at the FACA Track Coaches clinic there was an overwhelming majority vote of coaches to suggest to the FHSAA that there be a unified Region time schedule. I believe that it will be discussed at the next T&F Advisory Meeting.
Just for what it's worth. My Region would not be allowed to do this. The process would go like this:

me: Hey FHSAA, can I have a 2 day region?
FHSAA: Sure.

Then I would post the schedule and every school in the panhandle that has to drive 6 hours to get to the meet would call the FHSAA and complain about the extra cost of their entire area having to stay extra nights in hotels and miss another complete day of classes for a region meet and then the FHSAA would tell me that it sure would be better if I would just do it on one day instead. Many of those kids are already missing 2 days of school for the Region meet when it is on a single day. No chance they would be allowed to miss more school.

I feel like it is akin to having two football playoff teams mutually agree that since they both have great offenses and want to score lots of points, that for their second round FHSAA playoff game, they are going to allow each other to have 10 timeouts each half instead of 3. It's more rest for the athletes and everyone can play better. . . .

You may respond and say that there is a football rule for only 3 timeouts and there is no rule for a region schedule in track. Correct. And that is why at the FACA Track Coaches clinic there was an overwhelming majority vote of coaches to suggest to the FHSAA that there be a unified Region time schedule. I believe that it will be discussed at the next T&F Advisory Meeting.
04/26/2017 10:42:08 AM
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[quote=eredondo]If FHSAA gave 2A support to do this, why wouldn't they think to also offer it to the other regions this year to! Its all or none! Very UNFAIR!!![/quote] @eredondo Each regional host had the option to submit a schedule to best fit their region. This is listed in the manual and in the regional host packet. 4.14.2.2.2 Regional Meets (b) Dates and Time Schedule. (1) Dates. The date of each regional meet will be posted on FHSAA.org. (2) Time Schedule. The time schedule shall be determined by the meet host. A recommended event schedule will be provided by FHSAA. http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2016-17/2016-17_regional_host_request_0.docx We are supportive of initiatives taken by our members to improve athletic outcomes for our student athletes. This particular schedule mirrors our state finals schedule better than any other we've seen. To address the concerns in 2016 about region schedules, we provided a menu of options for our schools bidding to host and some of bid winners adjusted those schedules to address their needs. It's also impractical to standardize the schedules because each region has their own local concerns. There are 16 regional meets currently. Only 3 or 4 of those regions were competitive in the bidding process. In a couple regions, bids to host the meet were not even submitted - hence the super regional meets occurring this week. We encourage other regions in the future to take the initiative in floating ideas to support the student-athletes. We are open to new ideas on how to make the process better and as fair as possible, but we also are not of the mindset that everyone should be at an equal dis-advantage especially with the current format for advancement. Because we advance based on place, the schools are on a level playing field within their region. 2A Region 4 will advance the top 4 in their region. 2A Region 3 will advance their top 4 and so on. If at-large entries become a reality, we will consider a standardized schedule within each class.
redondo wrote:
If FHSAA gave 2A support to do this, why wouldn't they think to also offer it to the other regions this year to! Its all or none! Very UNFAIR!!!


@eredondo

Each regional host had the option to submit a schedule to best fit their region. This is listed in the manual and in the regional host packet.

4.14.2.2.2 Regional Meets
(b) Dates and Time Schedule.
(1) Dates. The date of each regional meet will be posted on FHSAA.org.
(2) Time Schedule. The time schedule shall be determined by the meet host. A recommended event schedule will be provided by FHSAA.

http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2016-17/2016-17_regional_host_request_0.docx

We are supportive of initiatives taken by our members to improve athletic outcomes for our student athletes. This particular schedule mirrors our state finals schedule better than any other we've seen. To address the concerns in 2016 about region schedules, we provided a menu of options for our schools bidding to host and some of bid winners adjusted those schedules to address their needs. It's also impractical to standardize the schedules because each region has their own local concerns. There are 16 regional meets currently. Only 3 or 4 of those regions were competitive in the bidding process. In a couple regions, bids to host the meet were not even submitted - hence the super regional meets occurring this week. We encourage other regions in the future to take the initiative in floating ideas to support the student-athletes. We are open to new ideas on how to make the process better and as fair as possible, but we also are not of the mindset that everyone should be at an equal dis-advantage especially with the current format for advancement. Because we advance based on place, the schools are on a level playing field within their region. 2A Region 4 will advance the top 4 in their region. 2A Region 3 will advance their top 4 and so on.

If at-large entries become a reality, we will consider a standardized schedule within each class.
04/26/2017 10:51:40 AM
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@edwardjthompson Ok so that means we could have a 3 day meet and run the 3200 one day, then 800 the 2nd day and the 1600 the 3rd day? Huh? It has to be standardized somewhat. Qualifying for a triple is hard enough, but made easier with 2 day meets. I understand the logistics of 2 day meets, but in my opinion it must be standardized further.
@edwardjthompson
Ok so that means we could have a 3 day meet and run the 3200 one day, then 800 the 2nd day and the 1600 the 3rd day? Huh? It has to be standardized somewhat. Qualifying for a triple is hard enough, but made easier with 2 day meets. I understand the logistics of 2 day meets, but in my opinion it must be standardized further.
04/26/2017 11:16:24 AM
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Guys A little history here... for upteen forever years ( until roughly 7 years ago if I'm correct) there was a standard time schedule for all regions... then for some reason, about 7 years ago that part of the manual was discarded... and some regions like region 1AA began running doubling mega double region meets where the athletes would have twice as much rest as other regions... That was not viewed as "unfair"... as of course it shouldn't be viewed. There is a huge amount of inequity at present across regions... There are some regions now that "build in rest" for the athletes....and runt he meet over 12 hours... and others that rush the meet to get the whole meet done in 6 hours Until/unless the FHSAA standardizes the region meet as it does the state meet(if the FHSAA decides to go back that way), region hosts should be applauded for making decisions that are both practical and in the best interests of the athletes trying to qualify for state. Kudos to the Region 4AA director and Ed Thompson for attempting to work a meet in the athletes' best interest and in attempting to prepare the kids for the state meet . In this case, the meet host surveyed the distance coaches and received almost unanimous support.
Guys

A little history here... for upteen forever years ( until roughly 7 years ago if I'm correct) there was a standard time schedule for all regions... then for some reason, about 7 years ago that part of the manual was discarded... and some regions like region 1AA began running doubling mega double region meets where the athletes would have twice as much rest as other regions... That was not viewed as "unfair"... as of course it shouldn't be viewed. There is a huge amount of inequity at present across regions... There are some regions now that "build in rest" for the athletes....and runt he meet over 12 hours... and others that rush the meet to get the whole meet done in 6 hours

Until/unless the FHSAA standardizes the region meet as it does the state meet(if the FHSAA decides to go back that way), region hosts should be applauded for making decisions that are both practical and in the best interests of the athletes trying to qualify for state.

Kudos to the Region 4AA director and Ed Thompson for attempting to work a meet in the athletes' best interest and in attempting to prepare the kids for the state meet . In this case, the meet host surveyed the distance coaches and received almost unanimous support.
04/26/2017 11:25:22 AM
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Regardless of the event schedule, favorable or unfavorable, all of the athletes in a given region have the same opportunity to advance in the top four, especially if they decide to run in only one event. If they try to advance in multiple events, event scheduling can provide advantages or disadvantages versus other athletes. As coaches, we have to make strategic choices (or gambles) based on the event schedule that we think will provide our athletes with the desired outcome, but we know what we're up against upfront. If we go to at-large qualifying, then all regionals must run on the same event schedule to assure that we're comparing apples to apples and not oranges.
Regardless of the event schedule, favorable or unfavorable, all of the athletes in a given region have the same opportunity to advance in the top four, especially if they decide to run in only one event. If they try to advance in multiple events, event scheduling can provide advantages or disadvantages versus other athletes. As coaches, we have to make strategic choices (or gambles) based on the event schedule that we think will provide our athletes with the desired outcome, but we know what we're up against upfront.

If we go to at-large qualifying, then all regionals must run on the same event schedule to assure that we're comparing apples to apples and not oranges.
04/26/2017 11:31:40 AM
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@Stevefarn So you agree, no double region meet, all single regions and everyone has to run same time schedule?
@Stevefarn So you agree, no double region meet, all single regions and everyone has to run same time schedule?
04/26/2017 11:43:11 AM
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@coachbutler Yes, if we allow additional at-large qualifiers. Otherwise, the regions can do their own thing and the coaches just have to adapt to it. I am personally opposed to 3 PM single regional finals, which give you a 4 PM 1600 and a 5 PM 3200, and lots of heat-related medical issues.
@coachbutler

Yes, if we allow additional at-large qualifiers. Otherwise, the regions can do their own thing and the coaches just have to adapt to it. I am personally opposed to 3 PM single regional finals, which give you a 4 PM 1600 and a 5 PM 3200, and lots of heat-related medical issues.
04/26/2017 11:55:19 AM
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@Stevefarn Well said... another reason why the region meets should be standardized... until about 7 years ago, distance events standardly were in the evening.
@Stevefarn
Well said... another reason why the region meets should be standardized... until about 7 years ago, distance events standardly were in the evening.
04/26/2017 1:15:44 PM
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I'm a rather simple man, so I very well may be missing something. However, I don't see the injustice here. Given that we do not currently have at-large qualifiers, there is not a need to standardize across regions. Region 1 qualifies 4 athletes, Region 2 qualifies 4, etc...based on how they perform in THAT particular region's race. Therefore, whether Region 1's schedule differs from Region 4's is a moot point. You only need to worry about and compete against those in your own region...which will follow the same schedule, same rest, same time of day, etc. Again, if we introduce at-large qualifiers, then standardization will be very important. What am I missing?
I'm a rather simple man, so I very well may be missing something. However, I don't see the injustice here. Given that we do not currently have at-large qualifiers, there is not a need to standardize across regions. Region 1 qualifies 4 athletes, Region 2 qualifies 4, etc...based on how they perform in THAT particular region's race. Therefore, whether Region 1's schedule differs from Region 4's is a moot point. You only need to worry about and compete against those in your own region...which will follow the same schedule, same rest, same time of day, etc.

Again, if we introduce at-large qualifiers, then standardization will be very important.

What am I missing?

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