Rankings and Database Issues
05/11/2017 2:29:23 PM
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"Unfortunately, we need to scrub the database. The errors are growing on a regular basis. I assume there are issues with the whole English vs. Metric notation causing issues and no one is catching them." This was posted on a different discussion, and I think it is something the MileSplit people need to see and hear about. There are several issues with the rankings and database. However, I have come to realize 70% of it is just user error. Which, maybe is MileSplit's problem and something needs to be done so that there is no way to get confused. I was coaching before MileSplit was around and have checked out other sites. There is nothing that can compare to what has been created here. But like all things, without the proper maintenance and change it will become obsolete. I have the ability to fix most issues, but I need to know what they are to fix them. Some things have been identified and the higher ups are working on solutions. Feel free to send me an email if you are experiencing issues or have questions. I cannot touch issues related to ads or subscriptions (other than teaching someone how to create an account). Please use this topic to post ideas and/or issues. Coach Sumner LFCSumner3@aol.com
"Unfortunately, we need to scrub the database. The errors are growing on a regular basis. I assume there are issues with the whole English vs. Metric notation causing issues and no one is catching them."

This was posted on a different discussion, and I think it is something the MileSplit people need to see and hear about. There are several issues with the rankings and database. However, I have come to realize 70% of it is just user error. Which, maybe is MileSplit's problem and something needs to be done so that there is no way to get confused. I was coaching before MileSplit was around and have checked out other sites. There is nothing that can compare to what has been created here. But like all things, without the proper maintenance and change it will become obsolete.

I have the ability to fix most issues, but I need to know what they are to fix them. Some things have been identified and the higher ups are working on solutions. Feel free to send me an email if you are experiencing issues or have questions. I cannot touch issues related to ads or subscriptions (other than teaching someone how to create an account).

Please use this topic to post ideas and/or issues.

Coach Sumner
LFCSumner3@aol.com
05/11/2017 2:46:13 PM
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I would like to see parameters in place like we had for event entry site for Elite for events so that things like 3.44 are not entered for the 800 and 12:33 is not entered in for the 100M or 5:22:44 for the 1600..... Also like to see kids assigned a "social security number" so the merging of this MS, this HS, college, and these two track clubs, can follow a kid for his or her entire career. (think TFRSS)
I would like to see parameters in place like we had for event entry site for Elite for events so that things like 3.44 are not entered for the 800 and 12:33 is not entered in for the 100M or 5:22:44 for the 1600.....

Also like to see kids assigned a "social security number" so the merging of this MS, this HS, college, and these two track clubs, can follow a kid for his or her entire career. (think TFRSS)
05/11/2017 2:55:39 PM
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@Coach_Hill Every athlete has an athlete ID. So Tyrese Cooper's athlete profile is: http://fl.milesplit.com/athletes/6687681 So his athlete id # is 6687681, which is his unique identifier within our system.
@Coach_Hill Every athlete has an athlete ID. So Tyrese Cooper's athlete profile is:
http://fl.milesplit.com/athletes/6687681

So his athlete id # is 6687681, which is his unique identifier within our system.
05/11/2017 3:13:29 PM
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@jason I'm asking for multiple profiles for a single kid, like what I have sifted through for countless hours (well, between 15 and 18 anyway) leading up to the MS/club state championships to be a thing of the past.... The wealth of knowledge in the Milesplit database is impressive but not easy in the current scenario for me.
@jason
I'm asking for multiple profiles for a single kid, like what I have sifted through for countless hours (well, between 15 and 18 anyway) leading up to the MS/club state championships to be a thing of the past.... The wealth of knowledge in the Milesplit database is impressive but not easy in the current scenario for me.
05/11/2017 6:44:50 PM
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@jason Yes every profile has an exact number linked to it, but that number doesn't link to all the profiles of that athlete. I believe what Mike is asking for is a way to prevent coaches, MileSplit personnel, parents, or whoever from making multiple profiles for the same person. Duplicate profiles are usually the majority of the issues we come across. And understanding how they affect the rankings is different for everyone. Here is what I see over and over: Prince Todd Grasley has profiles as the following: Prince Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2021 Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2020 Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2020 (because someone hit save twice or inactivated the first one and just created a new one) T Grasley from Orlando HS class of 0 Mike Grasley from Orlando HS (typically because the coach doesn't care to take the time to get the name right) class of 0 Todd Grasley from Just North of St. Pete MS class of 2013 Todd Grasely from UnderRun TC class of 2014 Todd Grasley from I run for someone new TC class of 2021 T Grasley unattached class of 0 It is all the same person, but there are dozens of different versions. And they all cause different problems. The 3 names (Prince Todd Grasley) causes problems when trying to dehytek. Sometimes the middle name gets added as part of the first name and sometimes part of the last name. So when it gets loaded, it will not necessarily match. If the person loading the performances doesn't realize that, sometimes they create a new profile. I know a few around the state, so I can manually change it to match the appropriate person (but it is impossible for everyone to know this). The different spellings are annoying because it is almost always from laziness. And no one wants to be told they are lazy. So pride gets in the way. However in computer language 1 character off is treated as a different profile. So Todd Grasley and Todd Grasely do not match. Not sure how to fix this other than asking coaches over and over to keep checking their athlete's profile. Some people let us know, but there are thousands who just don't care and never say something. Plus with millions of people there are bound to be multiple people with the same name, so MileSplit cannot assume those different spellings are the same person because they are close in spelling. Being part of multiple teams adds another level of issues. This goes back to there being millions of people in the country and there is no way for me, the real Todd, Jason, or anyone in MileSplit to know who runs for who. Unless told otherwise we have to treat them as different people. My wife is getting on to me for writing a book. But I think the point is getting out there. So these duplicate profiles start to ruin the rankings and more importantly cause problems for meet directors (like the crap Mike and Dan are having to deal with for the MS state meet) for a whole different set of reasons. I'll try to get to that in another response. Going back to what Mike brought up. Smarter minds need to come up with a better way to prevent these duplicate profiles (obviously it cannot fully, but something better than what is going on).
@jason Yes every profile has an exact number linked to it, but that number doesn't link to all the profiles of that athlete.

I believe what Mike is asking for is a way to prevent coaches, MileSplit personnel, parents, or whoever from making multiple profiles for the same person. Duplicate profiles are usually the majority of the issues we come across. And understanding how they affect the rankings is different for everyone.

Here is what I see over and over:

Prince Todd Grasley has profiles as the following:
Prince Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2021
Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2020
Todd Grasley from Orlando HS class of 2020 (because someone hit save twice or inactivated the first one and just created a new one)
T Grasley from Orlando HS class of 0
Mike Grasley from Orlando HS (typically because the coach doesn't care to take the time to get the name right) class of 0
Todd Grasley from Just North of St. Pete MS class of 2013
Todd Grasely from UnderRun TC class of 2014
Todd Grasley from I run for someone new TC class of 2021
T Grasley unattached class of 0

It is all the same person, but there are dozens of different versions. And they all cause different problems.

The 3 names (Prince Todd Grasley) causes problems when trying to dehytek. Sometimes the middle name gets added as part of the first name and sometimes part of the last name. So when it gets loaded, it will not necessarily match. If the person loading the performances doesn't realize that, sometimes they create a new profile. I know a few around the state, so I can manually change it to match the appropriate person (but it is impossible for everyone to know this).

The different spellings are annoying because it is almost always from laziness. And no one wants to be told they are lazy. So pride gets in the way. However in computer language 1 character off is treated as a different profile. So Todd Grasley and Todd Grasely do not match. Not sure how to fix this other than asking coaches over and over to keep checking their athlete's profile. Some people let us know, but there are thousands who just don't care and never say something. Plus with millions of people there are bound to be multiple people with the same name, so MileSplit cannot assume those different spellings are the same person because they are close in spelling.

Being part of multiple teams adds another level of issues. This goes back to there being millions of people in the country and there is no way for me, the real Todd, Jason, or anyone in MileSplit to know who runs for who. Unless told otherwise we have to treat them as different people.

My wife is getting on to me for writing a book. But I think the point is getting out there.

So these duplicate profiles start to ruin the rankings and more importantly cause problems for meet directors (like the crap Mike and Dan are having to deal with for the MS state meet) for a whole different set of reasons. I'll try to get to that in another response.

Going back to what Mike brought up. Smarter minds need to come up with a better way to prevent these duplicate profiles (obviously it cannot fully, but something better than what is going on).
05/11/2017 6:46:59 PM
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And yes, if we (Todd and I and other MileSplit people) are notified we can simply merge those duplicates profiles. It's the ones that we don't know of and that people do not tell us about that cause issues.
And yes, if we (Todd and I and other MileSplit people) are notified we can simply merge those duplicates profiles. It's the ones that we don't know of and that people do not tell us about that cause issues.
05/11/2017 6:58:37 PM
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One option would be to have a "suggestion box" that the user community could use to submit the issues they see. I know that on an individual basis, I have had LOTS of support for my athletes. However, there some systemic issues that should be addressed in that fashion. For example: The post I made regarding the girls long jump regarding the article, shows that the original results were listed as "12' 8.5" (I believe). It was interpreted as 8.5m for the database. We should be able to note when parsing things like this so that they are flagged prior to being entered into the database and having to adjust. Make sense?
One option would be to have a "suggestion box" that the user community could use to submit the issues they see.

I know that on an individual basis, I have had LOTS of support for my athletes.

However, there some systemic issues that should be addressed in that fashion.

For example: The post I made regarding the girls long jump regarding the article, shows that the original results were listed as "12' 8.5" (I believe). It was interpreted as 8.5m for the database. We should be able to note when parsing things like this so that they are flagged prior to being entered into the database and having to adjust.

Make sense?
05/11/2017 9:37:40 PM
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@LFCSumner3 Are you looking for a little Jason programming? You trying to convince my to dust off my dusty keyboard and write a little MileSplit code for old time sake?? I don't know what I can do quickly for duplicate performances. We did update the team pages to avoid letting people create (exact spelled) duplicates in an update in April or March. I'm going to look at some things with Dehytek and see what I can clean up. Take a look at those english marks with spaces in them, which I think is coming from Meet Pro and causing issues if person putting in stats doesn't pay close attention.
@LFCSumner3 Are you looking for a little Jason programming? You trying to convince my to dust off my dusty keyboard and write a little MileSplit code for old time sake??

I don't know what I can do quickly for duplicate performances. We did update the team pages to avoid letting people create (exact spelled) duplicates in an update in April or March.

I'm going to look at some things with Dehytek and see what I can clean up. Take a look at those english marks with spaces in them, which I think is coming from Meet Pro and causing issues if person putting in stats doesn't pay close attention.
05/11/2017 9:53:09 PM
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@peterwho Fixed this so 12' 8.5 type format should not be an issue again when Todd or Chris are parsing Meet Pro results.
@peterwho Fixed this so 12' 8.5 type format should not be an issue again when Todd or Chris are parsing Meet Pro results.
05/11/2017 10:03:00 PM
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I feel like we just had a visit from the "ghost of Florida Runner's Zone past"
I feel like we just had a visit from the "ghost of Florida Runner's Zone past"
05/11/2017 10:37:48 PM
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@jason Maaayyybe :) Yes, there was a little learning curve at the beginning of the season with MeetPro results. And there are still a few things I keep learning. With MeetPro results if the field event has fractions of an inch it has to be manually fixed before dehyteking. I know how to do this, but there are others involved who don't or don't take the time to fix them. So like in the example above 12' 8.5" is what the "raw" results show. However after looking more in depth, there is a space between the feet and inches, which the MileSplit dehyteking program must read as a different column and because it reads only the last portion it thinks 8.5 must be a metric measurement. On the admin side where myself, Todd, and other MileSplit people load results, we have a way to mass correct those. But one has to know to do that. Obviously since this error keeps happening, someone is not fixing this before dehyteking. The solution would be to get MeetPro to change the way their results come out (which I highly doubt they would want to do) or fix the MileSplit dehyteking program to recognize that issue and cut out the need to manually fix it. Other random things I have noticed with MeetPro dehyteking. If there is that little j after the place that line will not read at all. Same as if there is no place, it won't read. I haven't had a chance to play with MeetPro to figure out what causes this (I assume the j is a judges decision tie breaker). So sometimes we get emails about results being missing, even though they are there in the "completed" or what I call "raw" results. All that above being said, this is only in reference to the MeetPro Text File results that look similar to the Hytek HTML results.
@jason Maaayyybe :)

Yes, there was a little learning curve at the beginning of the season with MeetPro results. And there are still a few things I keep learning. With MeetPro results if the field event has fractions of an inch it has to be manually fixed before dehyteking. I know how to do this, but there are others involved who don't or don't take the time to fix them. So like in the example above 12' 8.5" is what the "raw" results show. However after looking more in depth, there is a space between the feet and inches, which the MileSplit dehyteking program must read as a different column and because it reads only the last portion it thinks 8.5 must be a metric measurement. On the admin side where myself, Todd, and other MileSplit people load results, we have a way to mass correct those. But one has to know to do that. Obviously since this error keeps happening, someone is not fixing this before dehyteking. The solution would be to get MeetPro to change the way their results come out (which I highly doubt they would want to do) or fix the MileSplit dehyteking program to recognize that issue and cut out the need to manually fix it.

Other random things I have noticed with MeetPro dehyteking. If there is that little j after the place that line will not read at all. Same as if there is no place, it won't read. I haven't had a chance to play with MeetPro to figure out what causes this (I assume the j is a judges decision tie breaker). So sometimes we get emails about results being missing, even though they are there in the "completed" or what I call "raw" results.

All that above being said, this is only in reference to the MeetPro Text File results that look similar to the Hytek HTML results.
05/11/2017 10:47:12 PM
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@peterwho There actually is a suggestion box, but it is kind of hidden at the bottom of the page. You have to click the Contact Us link and then you will see it. I think it would better at the top, labeled "Help." And then maybe different categories of where that email should be delievered (for example, help with rankings, help with profile, help with subscription, help with team management, help with forum ignorance, help with I need someone to talk to, etc...).
@peterwho There actually is a suggestion box, but it is kind of hidden at the bottom of the page. You have to click the Contact Us link and then you will see it. I think it would better at the top, labeled "Help." And then maybe different categories of where that email should be delievered (for example, help with rankings, help with profile, help with subscription, help with team management, help with forum ignorance, help with I need someone to talk to, etc...).
05/12/2017 9:42:50 AM
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Rankings :) Ok, this dang soap box ended up under my feet again this morning. I am not sure if the way our system pulls the information for rankings is the best idea. Right now performances have to be labeled correctly to show in the correct rankings. For instance, Stacey Sixthgrader competes at the 5A District 17 championship. The performance is loaded as a HS performance even though she is in MS. The coach wants her time listed on their school records page but also wants her to show up in the MS rankings. However it cannot be both. Her school is labeled HS so for it to show on the records board it would have to also be labeled HS. But to show in the MS rankings it has to be labeled MS. Some say just add the performance twice, but then she shows up twice in virtual meets and we get complaints about that too. No win situation. Another slightly related issue is that some people just speak different languages. They say they are looking at a rankings list but are actually looking at a virtual meet. Rankings show metric results and virtual meets show english. So one coach says, hey there is an issue with the results from the Full Moon Invitational. It has Zha'tqarious Smith Jr III jumping 113.84 meters in the long jump. I look on the admin side and see the performance in english as 18-07.66 and think, no it is correct. But then once I dig a little more I realize the metric and english don't match (this typically happens when someone tries to manually adjust something on the admin side). Point here being there are so many places for us to look/double check, we end up missing errors, so we need to be notified when other people spot these. I guess this would tie back to the Help/Suggestion Box.
Rankings :)

Ok, this dang soap box ended up under my feet again this morning.

I am not sure if the way our system pulls the information for rankings is the best idea. Right now performances have to be labeled correctly to show in the correct rankings. For instance, Stacey Sixthgrader competes at the 5A District 17 championship. The performance is loaded as a HS performance even though she is in MS. The coach wants her time listed on their school records page but also wants her to show up in the MS rankings. However it cannot be both. Her school is labeled HS so for it to show on the records board it would have to also be labeled HS. But to show in the MS rankings it has to be labeled MS. Some say just add the performance twice, but then she shows up twice in virtual meets and we get complaints about that too. No win situation.

Another slightly related issue is that some people just speak different languages. They say they are looking at a rankings list but are actually looking at a virtual meet. Rankings show metric results and virtual meets show english. So one coach says, hey there is an issue with the results from the Full Moon Invitational. It has Zha'tqarious Smith Jr III jumping 113.84 meters in the long jump. I look on the admin side and see the performance in english as 18-07.66 and think, no it is correct. But then once I dig a little more I realize the metric and english don't match (this typically happens when someone tries to manually adjust something on the admin side). Point here being there are so many places for us to look/double check, we end up missing errors, so we need to be notified when other people spot these. I guess this would tie back to the Help/Suggestion Box.
05/12/2017 10:29:41 AM
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@LFCSumner3 I believe we should change that. I don't think we should filter our team rankings by level. I will file a ticket for this. Keep in mind, I don't write the code on the site anymore. So when we redo certain things like that... we have a great developer, very talented, but not quite as in touch with the product as I would have been. So when we see stuff like that it's good to let us know so we can file a ticket to get it changed.
@LFCSumner3 I believe we should change that. I don't think we should filter our team rankings by level. I will file a ticket for this.

Keep in mind, I don't write the code on the site anymore. So when we redo certain things like that... we have a great developer, very talented, but not quite as in touch with the product as I would have been. So when we see stuff like that it's good to let us know so we can file a ticket to get it changed.
05/14/2017 8:21:16 PM
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It appears that the 2012 meet results are not in the overall Meet Records. For example, I saw that Zatoria Thompson is shown as the meet record holder in the high jump at 5-05.00. However, in 2012, Domonique Turner, won the girls high jump and set the meet record at 5-06.00. I looked for a number of other events Domonique set the 100H record at 14.72. That needs to get merged into the database.
It appears that the 2012 meet results are not in the overall Meet Records.

For example, I saw that Zatoria Thompson is shown as the meet record holder in the high jump at 5-05.00.

However, in 2012, Domonique Turner, won the girls high jump and set the meet record at 5-06.00. I looked for a number of other events Domonique set the 100H record at 14.72.

That needs to get merged into the database.
05/15/2017 8:58:47 AM
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@LFCSumner3 as a coach of a combination MS/HS team obviously I'd love to have the times/athletes show up on both MS & HS lists & wouldn't care if they show up twice on virtual meets because it would be obvious why. That being said I can see why it would be frustrating to others. I know to look at both lists. But if that meant having duplicate profiles .. nope.. no way. You were very helpful in cleaning that up & merging them for us in a quick 15 minute phone call this year and I'd never go back to the other way now that it's so nice and neat. But I was curious because our school is all under one name/team/account now if Suzi Sixthgraders time from the MS state meet will show up on the MS rankings because it was a MS meet & would it also show up as a season's best under HS (it was)? My interpretation of what was said earlier is that it won't show up under anything HS because it was a MS meet. As long as any times for MS/HS athletes show up under one profile that's all that matters to me. Eventually they'll be in HS & they can break records at that time & have them show up on the HS list.
@LFCSumner3 as a coach of a combination MS/HS team obviously I'd love to have the times/athletes show up on both MS & HS lists & wouldn't care if they show up twice on virtual meets because it would be obvious why. That being said I can see why it would be frustrating to others. I know to look at both lists.

But if that meant having duplicate profiles .. nope.. no way. You were very helpful in cleaning that up & merging them for us in a quick 15 minute phone call this year and I'd never go back to the other way now that it's so nice and neat.

But I was curious because our school is all under one name/team/account now if Suzi Sixthgraders time from the MS state meet will show up on the MS rankings because it was a MS meet & would it also show up as a season's best under HS (it was)?

My interpretation of what was said earlier is that it won't show up under anything HS because it was a MS meet.

As long as any times for MS/HS athletes show up under one profile that's all that matters to me.

Eventually they'll be in HS & they can break records at that time & have them show up on the HS list.
05/15/2017 9:55:14 AM
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Hey all just to chime in yes you are right. All MS performances will show up in the MS rankings since its a MS meet. It's the club meets/summer meets that tend to be more difficult because there are mixed grades in there.
Hey all just to chime in yes you are right. All MS performances will show up in the MS rankings since its a MS meet. It's the club meets/summer meets that tend to be more difficult because there are mixed grades in there.

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