Additional 8 "at large" athletes based on regional performances added to top 4 to make states
05/16/2017 7:33:24 AM
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Also heard the FHSAA approved an additional 8 "at large" athletes based on regional performances will go to states on top of the top 4. So there will be an added flight/heat at the state meet next year. I'm definitely OK with this as it should help get more of the best athletes into the state championships where they belong.
Also heard the FHSAA approved an additional 8 "at large" athletes based on regional performances will go to states on top of the top 4. So there will be an added flight/heat at the state meet next year. I'm definitely OK with this as it should help get more of the best athletes into the state championships where they belong.
05/16/2017 9:06:31 AM
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Amen!!!
Amen!!!
05/16/2017 10:18:52 AM
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That's great now for the logistics of this. How soon and who will let coaches know if their athlete made it. Super excited for the kids.
That's great now for the logistics of this. How soon and who will let coaches know if their athlete made it. Super excited for the kids.
05/16/2017 11:30:53 AM
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Will this ruling apply to relay teams too?
Will this ruling apply to relay teams too?
05/16/2017 12:17:23 PM
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From the little I know, ALL Regions will be competing on the same day & same time. They will need to do what we did in the South and combine 2 regions per venue (in most cases). So in all reality the 1600m boys for example will start approx at the same time for the entire state. In the conclusion of the "Regional Championship Day", Im sure the FHSAA will make a final call on "At-Large bids" within 48hours. This change just made the State meet to a whole new level. Great job by Ed and all others..!
From the little I know, ALL Regions will be competing on the same day & same time. They will need to do what we did in the South and combine 2 regions per venue (in most cases). So in all reality the 1600m boys for example will start approx at the same time for the entire state.

In the conclusion of the "Regional Championship Day", Im sure the FHSAA will make a final call on "At-Large bids" within 48hours.

This change just made the State meet to a whole new level. Great job by Ed and all others..!
05/16/2017 12:22:49 PM
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I can't wait to see what happens when a storm delay comes. :)
I can't wait to see what happens when a storm delay comes. :)
05/16/2017 12:35:17 PM
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@LFCSumner3 Obviously everyone across the state gets delayed too...plus delay for high winds unless it's a tail wind.
@LFCSumner3
Obviously everyone across the state gets delayed too...plus delay for high winds unless it's a tail wind.
05/16/2017 12:56:59 PM
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@jrsteve2 I can't wait for the debate on the weather issues that come up that do not cause a delay, but are obviously unfair when comparing regions. I believe this "fix" is bad and will open the FHSAA to even more drama, but that is their decision and job, so oh well. Let's have some fun. :)
@jrsteve2 I can't wait for the debate on the weather issues that come up that do not cause a delay, but are obviously unfair when comparing regions. I believe this "fix" is bad and will open the FHSAA to even more drama, but that is their decision and job, so oh well. Let's have some fun. :)
05/16/2017 1:13:23 PM
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@Gooch7 If two regions are combined per venue, consideration should be given to hold the meet at a "centrally located" venue relative to the schools competing especially if more than one school requests to host the regional meet.
@Gooch7 If two regions are combined per venue, consideration should be given to hold the meet at a "centrally located" venue relative to the schools competing especially if more than one school requests to host the regional meet.
05/16/2017 3:25:57 PM
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Am I missing something? Why are there complaints about actually adding athletes to the State meet? Top 4 are still all going, so where's the beef?
Am I missing something? Why are there complaints about actually adding athletes to the State meet? Top 4 are still all going, so where's the beef?
05/16/2017 6:05:55 PM
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I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE DONT MAKE IT 2 STATE EVEN IF THERE TIMES ARE FASTER THAN PEOPLE THAT MADE IT BUT THATS THE CHALLENGE MAKE THE TOP 4 OR U DONT MAKE IT BESIDES THIS MAINLY BENEFIT DISTANCE RUNNERS BECAUSE YOU GUYS COMPLAIN EVERY YEAR ABOUT HOW HARD YOUR REGION IS WHY NOT BENEFIT EVERYONE SOME KIDS CANT MAKE IT IN INDIVIDUAL EVENTS BUT CAN MAKE IT ON A RELAY WHAT I MEAN BY THIS IS THAT DO U SEE SOME OF THE RELAYS THAT MAKE IT 2 STATE WHY NOT LET TEAMS USE AN A AND A B TEAM BUT THEN THE COMPLAINTS WILL BE THAT EVERYBODY DONT HAVE DEPT LIKE THAT MAKE IT FUN GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE 2 COMPETE AT STATE LETS NOT LET THIS BENEFIT 1 GROUP BECAUSE WE NO THE ONLY THING THIS AFFECT IS THE DISTANCE YOU GUYS ALREADY GOT THE 3200 AND 1600 SPLIT UP AT STATE THE SHOT AND DISC MAY ALSO NEED 2 BE SPLIT UP IN 2 DAYS YOU MAY GET BETTER THROWS
I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE DONT MAKE IT 2 STATE EVEN IF THERE TIMES ARE FASTER THAN PEOPLE THAT MADE IT BUT THATS THE CHALLENGE MAKE THE TOP 4 OR U DONT MAKE IT BESIDES THIS MAINLY BENEFIT DISTANCE RUNNERS BECAUSE YOU GUYS COMPLAIN EVERY YEAR ABOUT HOW HARD YOUR REGION IS WHY NOT BENEFIT EVERYONE SOME KIDS CANT MAKE IT IN INDIVIDUAL EVENTS BUT CAN MAKE IT ON A RELAY WHAT I MEAN BY THIS IS THAT DO U SEE SOME OF THE RELAYS THAT MAKE IT 2 STATE WHY NOT LET TEAMS USE AN A AND A B TEAM BUT THEN THE COMPLAINTS WILL BE THAT EVERYBODY DONT HAVE DEPT LIKE THAT MAKE IT FUN GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE 2 COMPETE AT STATE LETS NOT LET THIS BENEFIT 1 GROUP BECAUSE WE NO THE ONLY THING THIS AFFECT IS THE DISTANCE YOU GUYS ALREADY GOT THE 3200 AND 1600 SPLIT UP AT STATE THE SHOT AND DISC MAY ALSO NEED 2 BE SPLIT UP IN 2 DAYS YOU MAY GET BETTER THROWS
05/16/2017 6:26:35 PM
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I foresee the at large berths not resolving the issue and opening up the same number if not more complaints. Especially if there are windy or poor conditions in one region and not the other. And what happens if the meet director decides to compete with the wind in one region and against the wind in the other region? Or if changing directions is not allowed, if there are wind-aided performances. This weekend's MS Championships was a testament to the impact wind makes on a performance. Comparison of MS(wind aided) and 2A State meet(head wind). Event 29 Girls 100 Meter Dash Middle School ======================================================================================== Name Year Team Seed Finals Wind H# Points ======================================================================================== 1 Davis, Tamari Empire Athle 11.55 11.34 6.1 6 2 Carter, Jassani West Pembrok 11.82 11.71 6.1 6 3 Tillman, Saniyah Running For 11.75 11.91 6.1 6 4 Banton, Teoana Alpha Elite 12.12 11.96 6.1 6 Event 53 Girls 100 Meter Dash 2A Varsity ============================================================================ Name Year School Finals Wind Points ============================================================================ 1 Seymour, KaTia 12 Palatka HS 11.57 -1.2 10 2 Williams, Briana 9 Chaminade-Ma 11.84 -1.2 8 I believe adding a super regional or adding more qualifiers out of a region( with another qualifying heat at the state meet) would be more fair. And since we are making changes, why don't we consider going back to the two weekends for the State Champs- seems like track and field champs has been marginalized. Looking at a comparable sport like swimming, each class has their own day for the championships. Class 1A – Saturday, Nov. 4, 2017 Class 2A – Friday, Nov. 3, 2017 Class 3A – Saturday, Nov. 11, 2017 Class 4A – Friday, Nov. 10, 2017 Tennis is another that awards individuals as well as team and those divisions are split up though I understand there are less kids and tennis is limited by size of venue. http://www.fhsaa.org/sports/tennis From what I recall, one of the reasons for the decision to combine was because it interfered with graduation at UNF. Since IMG Academy is hosting, this isn't one of the factors. I miss the awards ceremony after the event on the infield and the pace of the meet seems hurried in its current form.
I foresee the at large berths not resolving the issue and opening up the same number if not more complaints. Especially if there are windy or poor conditions in one region and not the other. And what happens if the meet director decides to compete with the wind in one region and against the wind in the other region? Or if changing directions is not allowed, if there are wind-aided performances. This weekend's MS Championships was a testament to the impact wind makes on a performance. Comparison of MS(wind aided) and 2A State meet(head wind).

Event 29 Girls 100 Meter Dash Middle School
========================================================================================
Name Year Team Seed Finals Wind H# Points
========================================================================================
1 Davis, Tamari Empire Athle 11.55 11.34 6.1 6
2 Carter, Jassani West Pembrok 11.82 11.71 6.1 6
3 Tillman, Saniyah Running For 11.75 11.91 6.1 6
4 Banton, Teoana Alpha Elite 12.12 11.96 6.1 6

Event 53 Girls 100 Meter Dash 2A Varsity
============================================================================
Name Year School Finals Wind Points
============================================================================
1 Seymour, KaTia 12 Palatka HS 11.57 -1.2 10
2 Williams, Briana 9 Chaminade-Ma 11.84 -1.2 8

I believe adding a super regional or adding more qualifiers out of a region( with another qualifying heat at the state meet) would be more fair.

And since we are making changes, why don't we consider going back to the two weekends for the State Champs- seems like track and field champs has been marginalized.

Looking at a comparable sport like swimming, each class has their own day for the championships.

Class 1A -- Saturday, Nov. 4, 2017
Class 2A -- Friday, Nov. 3, 2017
Class 3A -- Saturday, Nov. 11, 2017
Class 4A -- Friday, Nov. 10, 2017

Tennis is another that awards individuals as well as team and those divisions are split up though I understand there are less kids and tennis is limited by size of venue. http://www.fhsaa.org/sports/tennis

From what I recall, one of the reasons for the decision to combine was because it interfered with graduation at UNF. Since IMG Academy is hosting, this isn't one of the factors. I miss the awards ceremony after the event on the infield and the pace of the meet seems hurried in its current form.
05/16/2017 8:55:36 PM
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Good Lord....you realize we're talking about athletes that all finished 5th or worse at Regional meet, right? Go back 5 years to all the regionals and tell me who would have been "cheated" by this new idea.
Good Lord....you realize we're talking about athletes that all finished 5th or worse at Regional meet, right? Go back 5 years to all the regionals and tell me who would have been "cheated" by this new idea.
05/16/2017 9:43:38 PM
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I thought Tim Whatley was the guy from Seinfeld? Why is he shouting and using numbers for words? I don't agree with some of what he says. U 2? Also, U2 is a hell of a band......
I thought Tim Whatley was the guy from Seinfeld? Why is he shouting and using numbers for words? I don't agree with some of what he says. U 2?

Also, U2 is a hell of a band......
05/16/2017 10:36:42 PM
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@Coach_PTS Will this be 8 total athletes from each of the classification's? 1A-4A or 8 total athletes state wide?
@Coach_PTS Will this be 8 total athletes from each of the classification's? 1A-4A or 8 total athletes state wide?
05/17/2017 7:29:01 AM
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This pulled directly from the minutes of the recent meeting: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- a. At-large qualifiers for the state finals – Paul Baur  Proposal for 8 Region to state at-large qualifiers called to motion by Mr. Crandall  Mr. Cerney Seconds  6-1 approved with Mr. Droze opposing  Discussion:  District inconsistencies, uneven districts  Too many districts for district to region  Certified officials for every field event  Instead of 16 region 1 day meets have 4 to 6 in 2 days and have multiple regions get together at 1 venue  1 day or 9 it needs to be standardized between all regions  Athletes should have similar recovery time across regions  Only finals at large qualifiers results to ensure athletes try during finals  Distance events compared to sprints  Prelim consistency across sprints  Harder to have finals with at-large bids  Relays for at large bids  Adding at large bids without adding too many more races  Opening heights would need to be standardized  Some type of signing of paperwork by coach declaring their athletes is not going to be an at large bid for that event and next best time would receive bid, 30 minutes after meet  Will not throw out wind-aided times for at large qualifiers  Level of competition, athletes showing up and competing on that day i. Discussion – Standardized schedule for districts and regional meets—E. Thompson ii. Discussion – Officials pay and officials assignments in state series events—E. Thompson iii. Discussion – Preliminaries ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This pulled directly from the minutes of the recent meeting:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
a. At-large qualifiers for the state finals -- Paul Baur
 Proposal for 8 Region to state at-large qualifiers called to motion by Mr. Crandall
 Mr. Cerney Seconds
 6-1 approved with Mr. Droze opposing
 Discussion:
 District inconsistencies, uneven districts
 Too many districts for district to region
 Certified officials for every field event
 Instead of 16 region 1 day meets have 4 to 6 in 2 days and have multiple regions get together at 1
venue
 1 day or 9 it needs to be standardized between all regions
 Athletes should have similar recovery time across regions
 Only finals at large qualifiers results to ensure athletes try during finals
 Distance events compared to sprints
 Prelim consistency across sprints
 Harder to have finals with at-large bids
 Relays for at large bids
 Adding at large bids without adding too many more races
 Opening heights would need to be standardized
 Some type of signing of paperwork by coach declaring their athletes is not going to be an at large
bid for that event and next best time would receive bid, 30 minutes after meet
 Will not throw out wind-aided times for at large qualifiers
 Level of competition, athletes showing up and competing on that day
i. Discussion -- Standardized schedule for districts and regional meets--E. Thompson
ii. Discussion -- Officials pay and officials assignments in state series events--E. Thompson
iii. Discussion -- Preliminaries
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05/17/2017 8:09:31 AM
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@jdpsu "Am I missing something? Why are there complaints about actually adding athletes to the State meet? Top 4 are still all going, so where's the beef?" For me, it is not complaining about adding athletes to the state meet so much, but the process for doing it. "Good Lord....you realize we're talking about athletes that all finished 5th or worse at Regional meet, right?" This quote basically sums it up. Districts and Regionals are like prelims for the State Finals. What is next? Athletes that get eliminated in prelims can get a pass straight to the finals, because life was unfair? The biggest issue is that it is not really fair, and hopefully will be a nightmare for the FHSAA if this is what they end up choosing. How will they handle multiple people being tied in the HJ or PV for those 8 spots? For example, 1st out is 6'4", 2-6 at 6'2", and 7-20 at 6'0". Get the idea? Only take 6? Take all 20? Hope and pray this doesn't happen? Call them all to do a jump off? How will you as a fan of only Orlando people feel when Tallahassee has awesome tailwinds and our athletes run super fast, while your meet had headwinds and your regular season state 2nd tier leaders get left out because we had inflated times? Example, Jim Bob from random school up north (regular season best was 11.09) runs 10.77 with a 3.6 tailwind at regions. Too Short from somewhere in Orlando (regular season best of 10.52) runs 10.78 with a -2.3 headwind. You then ok with Too Short getting left out? Or will the argument change now to allow regular season times? What if a major storm comes through and forces Region 3 to cancel or delay their meet? Does everyone else have to stop and reschedule? If people are wanting more included at state, then make it top 6 or 8 qualify, but do not try to compare athletes competing in totally different arenas in different circumstances.
@jdpsu "Am I missing something? Why are there complaints about actually adding athletes to the State meet? Top 4 are still all going, so where's the beef?"

For me, it is not complaining about adding athletes to the state meet so much, but the process for doing it.

"Good Lord....you realize we're talking about athletes that all finished 5th or worse at Regional meet, right?"

This quote basically sums it up. Districts and Regionals are like prelims for the State Finals. What is next? Athletes that get eliminated in prelims can get a pass straight to the finals, because life was unfair? The biggest issue is that it is not really fair, and hopefully will be a nightmare for the FHSAA if this is what they end up choosing.

How will they handle multiple people being tied in the HJ or PV for those 8 spots? For example, 1st out is 6'4", 2-6 at 6'2", and 7-20 at 6'0". Get the idea? Only take 6? Take all 20? Hope and pray this doesn't happen? Call them all to do a jump off?

How will you as a fan of only Orlando people feel when Tallahassee has awesome tailwinds and our athletes run super fast, while your meet had headwinds and your regular season state 2nd tier leaders get left out because we had inflated times? Example, Jim Bob from random school up north (regular season best was 11.09) runs 10.77 with a 3.6 tailwind at regions. Too Short from somewhere in Orlando (regular season best of 10.52) runs 10.78 with a -2.3 headwind. You then ok with Too Short getting left out? Or will the argument change now to allow regular season times?

What if a major storm comes through and forces Region 3 to cancel or delay their meet? Does everyone else have to stop and reschedule?

If people are wanting more included at state, then make it top 6 or 8 qualify, but do not try to compare athletes competing in totally different arenas in different circumstances.
05/17/2017 8:17:51 AM
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How can any good coach (or athlete) be against this idea from the FHSAA is beyond me.. If you don't want your athlete to get "jipped" on the At-Large decisions then simply push a little harder and qualify inside the TOP 4.. The rule will benefit every single event. It will also make most events a lot faster. As for mother nature, that is something we can not control. It will NEVER be a "perfect" way to vote for At-Large bids, but this is as close to perfect as we are going to get. Will heat & humidity give a disadvantage to So. Florida athletes in the distance events?? Yes.. Will a "cold" day in the JAX area give sprinters a disadvantage? Maybe.. Who cares, it gives 8 more athletes per event an opportunity to go to the Big Dance.. As for the Venue, that will all depend on who asks to host. In most cases NO ONE wants to host Region. If you want the Region meet near you, simply ask to host the meet. Once again GREAT job on making our sport just a little better..
How can any good coach (or athlete) be against this idea from the FHSAA is beyond me..

If you don't want your athlete to get "jipped" on the At-Large decisions then simply push a little harder and qualify inside the TOP 4.. The rule will benefit every single event. It will also make most events a lot faster.

As for mother nature, that is something we can not control. It will NEVER be a "perfect" way to vote for At-Large bids, but this is as close to perfect as we are going to get. Will heat & humidity give a disadvantage to So. Florida athletes in the distance events?? Yes.. Will a "cold" day in the JAX area give sprinters a disadvantage? Maybe.. Who cares, it gives 8 more athletes per event an opportunity to go to the Big Dance..

As for the Venue, that will all depend on who asks to host. In most cases NO ONE wants to host Region. If you want the Region meet near you, simply ask to host the meet.

Once again GREAT job on making our sport just a little better..
05/17/2017 8:56:35 AM
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@Gooch7 Well said!
@Gooch7 Well said!
05/17/2017 9:14:44 AM
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From what I have seen over the years on this board, the posters will find a way to complain about it. It will be the weather. It will be different days. It will be equipment. It will be officials. I can predict that the performance at a particular Regional will have been somehow "unfair" because their athlete's performance at that location on that day, isn't a proper reflection of their performance for the season. So, I am now in agreement with the "this is an opportunity for more athletes" mantra. Let's see how it goes and improve it. It will be easy to complain, but we should try to take advantage of the opportunity and do what we can to give this the best shot for our athletes.
From what I have seen over the years on this board, the posters will find a way to complain about it.

It will be the weather. It will be different days. It will be equipment. It will be officials.

I can predict that the performance at a particular Regional will have been somehow "unfair" because their athlete's performance at that location on that day, isn't a proper reflection of their performance for the season.

So, I am now in agreement with the "this is an opportunity for more athletes" mantra. Let's see how it goes and improve it. It will be easy to complain, but we should try to take advantage of the opportunity and do what we can to give this the best shot for our athletes.

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