Caster Semenya...man?
07/21/2017 11:08:11 PM
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I am really tiring of seeing an obvious man win 800's. Fyi...he married a woman.
I am really tiring of seeing an obvious man win 800's. Fyi...he married a woman.
07/22/2017 7:04:02 AM
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@jdpsu I agree that it doesn't seem like a level playing field, but, no, she is not a man. A woman with unusually high testosterone levels, yes. A lesbian married to a another woman, yes. But, no, not a man, and the powers-that-be have ruled that more research is needed to determine a position on women with high testosterone levels when it comes to athletic competition.
@jdpsu I agree that it doesn't seem like a level playing field, but, no, she is not a man. A woman with unusually high testosterone levels, yes. A lesbian married to a another woman, yes. But, no, not a man, and the
powers-that-be have ruled that more research is needed to determine a position on women with high testosterone levels when it comes to athletic competition.
07/22/2017 10:23:33 AM
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Link to article that may shed some light on the controversy: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/03/caster-semenya-could-be-forced-to-undertake-hormone-therapy-for-future-olympics
Link to article that may shed some light on the controversy:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/03/caster-semenya-could-be-forced-to-undertake-hormone-therapy-for-future-olympics
07/22/2017 12:54:41 PM
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@MonarchTC Thanks. Looks like the more research I referred to may now be available. Still a correlational study, and therefore can't prove cause and effect relationship, but may be enough evidence for them to move forward with requiring hormone replacement to lower testosterone level in athletes such as her.
@MonarchTC Thanks. Looks like the more research I referred to may now be available. Still a correlational study, and therefore can't prove cause and effect relationship, but may be enough evidence for them to move forward with requiring hormone replacement to lower testosterone level in athletes such as her.
07/22/2017 1:11:53 PM
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Semenya has a deeper voice & more facial hair than most. Here's a video discussing Semenya for people to decide. When forced to lower testosterone levels to female athletes, she was not competitive..: men.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRO7DSlqdX0
Semenya has a deeper voice & more facial hair than most. Here's a video discussing Semenya for people to decide. When forced to lower testosterone levels to female athletes, she was not competitive..:

men.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRO7DSlqdX0
07/22/2017 3:47:10 PM
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@jdpsu Is the playing field fair? Probably not.Semenya has been the most ridiculed and scrutinized athlete's of all time! She has been persecuted since 2009. She has done nothing but taken the high road and just compete and win. What should we do? Kick her out of competition and have who take her place? Your new American record holder Ms. Wilson? How clean is she? USADA is a damn joke! Let's name all the recent US athletes with BS clearances shall we.
@jdpsu Is the playing field fair? Probably not.Semenya has been the most ridiculed and scrutinized athlete's of all time! She has been persecuted since 2009. She has done nothing but taken the high road and just compete and win. What should we do? Kick her out of competition and have who take her place? Your new American record holder Ms. Wilson? How clean is she? USADA is a damn joke! Let's name all the recent US athletes with BS clearances shall we.
07/22/2017 4:06:51 PM
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All I'm saying is go back to a level playing field and get the testoterone levels back to female levels. Right now it's equivalent to allowing Semenya to be on steroids and no one else is....fyi-Semenya is 5'10" 161 lbs. Wilson is 5'8" 135.
All I'm saying is go back to a level playing field and get the testoterone levels back to female levels. Right now it's equivalent to allowing Semenya to be on steroids and no one else is....fyi-Semenya is 5'10" 161 lbs. Wilson is 5'8" 135.
07/22/2017 4:33:39 PM
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Clearly Semenya is sandbagging until the final sprint, and clearly she has a physical advantage. I am guessing she could drop a 1:50 if she wanted. But, she comes from a poor village and is making a great living relatively easily. She did not ask to be born this way. And it isnt as cut and dry as lowering testosterone levels or checking chromosome. There are men that look like men with chromosomes XX(the Y has transponded in an X), and there XY females(Sweyer syndrome), that look like females. Plus, there can be side effects and potential morbidity and mortality with any type of hormone therapy. And not all excessive testosterone has receptors to use it. There are woman with excessive testosterone that look like Katy Perry. So yes, Semenya clearly has a genetic physical advantage, but doesnt a 7 footer have an advantage in basketball? Doesnt Micahel Phelps have a genetic advantage with his body composition? There has been a Olympic champion cross country skier with a genetic mutation where he produced excessive red blood cells, giving him a huge aerobic advantage. No governing body suggested the XC skier be bled.
Clearly Semenya is sandbagging until the final sprint, and clearly she has a physical advantage. I am guessing she could drop a 1:50 if she wanted. But, she comes from a poor village and is making a great living relatively easily. She did not ask to be born this way. And it isnt as cut and dry as lowering testosterone levels or checking chromosome. There are men that look like men with chromosomes XX(the Y has transponded in an X), and there XY females(Sweyer syndrome), that look like females. Plus, there can be side effects and potential morbidity and mortality with any type of hormone therapy. And not all excessive testosterone has receptors to use it. There are woman with excessive testosterone that look like Katy Perry.

So yes, Semenya clearly has a genetic physical advantage, but doesnt a 7 footer have an advantage in basketball? Doesnt Micahel Phelps have a genetic advantage with his body composition? There has been a Olympic champion cross country skier with a genetic mutation where he produced excessive red blood cells, giving him a huge aerobic advantage. No governing body suggested the XC skier be bled.
07/22/2017 9:16:00 PM
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I thought she was both. Male internally and female externally, intersex but identifies as a woman. Am I wrong?
I thought she was both. Male internally and female externally, intersex but identifies as a woman. Am I wrong?
07/22/2017 10:50:12 PM
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@CoachGCracker Exactly. Watch the video. Semenya is actually more man than woman.
@CoachGCracker Exactly. Watch the video. Semenya is actually more man than woman.
07/23/2017 7:14:40 AM
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Well Semenya has not publicly disclosed any medical information, and it would be a pretty severe human rights violation if any person with access to Semenya's medical records to disclose any medical information. So as to her actual medical condition, it is purely speculation. Pretty sure the guy in the video with the black T-shirt doesn't have access to Semenya's medical records, so how would he know? But, agreed that no person can argue that she has some type of physical congenital advantage for 800m performance. Perhaps she does have internal male testes and external female genitalia.... Seems plausible. But some medical committee has deemed her female, bc in rare circumstances, there can not be clear lines drawn on gender. But genetic outliers come in many shapes and forms. This is why they are the best in the world. They have rare genetic conditions that give them an advantage. Just like, Olympic champion, Simone Biles, having an advantage for gymnastics, being a height of only 4'9".
Well Semenya has not publicly disclosed any medical information, and it would be a pretty severe human rights violation if any person with access to Semenya's medical records to disclose any medical information. So as to her actual medical condition, it is purely speculation.

Pretty sure the guy in the video with the black T-shirt doesn't have access to Semenya's medical records, so how would he know?

But, agreed that no person can argue that she has some type of physical congenital advantage for 800m performance. Perhaps she does have internal male testes and external female genitalia.... Seems plausible. But some medical committee has deemed her female, bc in rare circumstances, there can not be clear lines drawn on gender.

But genetic outliers come in many shapes and forms. This is why they are the best in the world. They have rare genetic conditions that give them an advantage. Just like, Olympic champion, Simone Biles, having an advantage for gymnastics, being a height of only 4'9".
07/23/2017 7:06:00 PM
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Fyi....no "medical committee" deemed Semenya female. It was self chosen.
Fyi....no "medical committee" deemed Semenya female. It was self chosen.
07/24/2017 10:41:14 AM
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@Coach_Don Not sure where you're heading with that, but a male middle distance runner that runs 1:55 can't usually run a fast 200 or sub 50 400. I think the 800 is the "sweet spot" for these intersex athletes.
@Coach_Don Not sure where you're heading with that, but a male middle distance runner that runs 1:55 can't usually run a fast 200 or sub 50 400. I think the 800 is the "sweet spot" for these intersex athletes.
07/24/2017 1:02:21 PM
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@Coach_Don She's 5'10" & 161 lbs. (about average for a male), and size has absolutely nothing to do with speed. I'm not sure I could "look at" a runner (male or female) and tell you what they're good at. I don't know how many boy athletes you've coached, but I personally could never coach an 800 runner to be a sprinter.
@Coach_Don She's 5'10" & 161 lbs. (about average for a male), and size has absolutely nothing to do with speed. I'm not sure I could "look at" a runner (male or female) and tell you what they're good at. I don't know how many boy athletes you've coached, but I personally could never coach an 800 runner to be a sprinter.
07/24/2017 2:13:02 PM
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As a practicing Internist, I felt obligated to educate. Her is my last response. 1. There are multiple combinations of sex chromosomes that can produce male or female. even the same combination(XX can be male or female) 2. There is every combination of reproductive organs(externally and internally) you could imagine. 3. There is every combination of hormones or hormone receptors in a person you could imagine. Therefore,assigning gender is way more complex and often unsolvable then you may understand . And a beauty contest is not one of the factors in determining gender
As a practicing Internist, I felt obligated to educate.

Her is my last response.

1. There are multiple combinations of sex chromosomes that can produce male or female. even the same combination(XX can be male or female)

2. There is every combination of reproductive organs(externally and internally)
you could imagine.

3. There is every combination of hormones or hormone receptors in a person you could imagine.

Therefore,assigning gender is way more complex and often unsolvable then you may understand . And a beauty contest is not one of the factors in determining gender
07/25/2017 2:11:54 PM
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@MasTay Sorry, bit "assigning" gender isn't complex for 99% of the population and if you can't "identify" as 100% female, you shouldn't compete against females, let alone win 2 Olympic golds & be #1 in the world.....
@MasTay Sorry, bit "assigning" gender isn't complex for 99% of the population and if you can't "identify" as 100% female, you shouldn't compete against females, let alone win 2 Olympic golds & be #1 in the world.....
07/26/2017 1:47:54 AM
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@jdpsu, I understand your concern and thoughts, I really do. But, you wrote about identifying "100%" with gender. I agree with you, but the problem still lies in that the 100% line can not be drawn for the reason Coach Don and I have described to you. Plus, how would you know what every female world or olympic champion is packing in their dna, internally , or externally. Female Gold medal Ms. X could have 2 penises, 4 testicles, and 9 ovaries and how would anyone know??? What do you suggest, we have a requirement for penis size, clitoris size, ovary size and number, and testicle size and number.... Because, I can tell you with 100% accuracy, that way more than 1% of the population would not meet any standard written like that. And we can not define gender with hormones or chromosomes as I previously described. Everyone wishes we could draw simple gender lines, but I am telling you, we can not
@jdpsu, I understand your concern and thoughts, I really do. But, you wrote about identifying "100%" with gender. I agree with you, but the problem still lies in that the 100% line can not be drawn for the reason Coach Don and I have described to you. Plus, how would you know what every female world or olympic champion is packing in their dna, internally , or externally. Female Gold medal Ms. X could have 2 penises, 4 testicles, and 9 ovaries and how would anyone know???
What do you suggest, we have a requirement for penis size, clitoris size, ovary size and number, and testicle size and number.... Because, I can tell you with 100% accuracy, that way more than 1% of the population would not meet any standard written like that. And we can not define gender with hormones or chromosomes as I previously described. Everyone wishes we could draw simple gender lines, but I am telling you, we can not
07/26/2017 4:42:06 AM
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@jdpsu Here is an article which discusses a very complex issue https://sportsscientists.com/2016/05/hyperandrogenism-women-vs-women-vs-men-sport-qa-joanna-harper/
@jdpsu

Here is an article which discusses a very complex issue
https://sportsscientists.com/2016/05/hyperandrogenism-women-vs-women-vs-men-sport-qa-joanna-harper/
07/26/2017 7:09:59 AM
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In my opinion, this is the final nail in the coffin for Track & Field.
In my opinion, this is the final nail in the coffin for Track & Field.
07/27/2017 6:45:14 AM
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@jdpsu What about drug use? John Oliver had a great commentary on doping in Olympics in the incestuous relationship between sports organizing committees, sponsors and athletes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyqAD5Z6_A Other sports have unions and in their agreements have clauses that give plenty of opportunities to circumvent the drug testing processes. What is killing track? Not marketing and packaging it correctly. The Track Summer series is doing something different for the average fan- getting them involved. I loved the idea of having the Freeze race against fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwoSVEwmds Usain Bolt's track series also offered something different and the IAAF World Relays was entertaining as well. Also, if you watch sports in general, stands are more empty than in years past. Just take a look when they pan out. If you are attend, you'll see a lot of empty seats. You even see this in storied Diamond League meets. So maybe all sports are niche markets. Track and Field has potential though. The participation numbers keep growing. If we can keep those who run track involved, track and field has a chance.
@jdpsu

What about drug use? John Oliver had a great commentary on doping in Olympics in the incestuous relationship between sports organizing committees, sponsors and athletes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyqAD5Z6_A

Other sports have unions and in their agreements have clauses that give plenty of opportunities to circumvent the drug testing processes.

What is killing track? Not marketing and packaging it correctly. The Track Summer series is doing something different for the average fan- getting them involved. I loved the idea of having the Freeze race against fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCwoSVEwmds
Usain Bolt's track series also offered something different and the IAAF World Relays was entertaining as well.

Also, if you watch sports in general, stands are more empty than in years past. Just take a look when they pan out. If you are attend, you'll see a lot of empty seats. You even see this in storied Diamond League meets.

So maybe all sports are niche markets. Track and Field has potential though. The participation numbers keep growing. If we can keep those who run track involved, track and field has a chance.

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