Region sites up on FHSAA webpage-- ABSOLUTE CRAZINESS!!
12/01/2017 3:45:53 PM
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Normally I will only post information, but after this afternoon's release of the region sites I felt it necessary to put this craziness out there. I'm probably going to tick some folks off, but I don't really care at this point as this is pure lunacy!!! I received notice earlier today via e-mail thanking me for my request to host our Region 3-4A meet at Coral Springs High but that we were not selected. No problem, I head somewhere between my place and Vero which covers our region geographically and I get to just coach for the day. But oh no!!! Imagine my shock that our region is being sent 3+ hours all the way across the state to the west coast and Charlotte HS!! THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NUTS AND MAYBE THE CRAZIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN MY ALMOST 40 YEARS OF DOING THIS!!!! I get it that the FHSAA wants to have "double regions", but folks, there has to be some common sense here! Region 3-3A and Region 3-4A are on completely opposite coasts! I'm sure the folks at Charlotte will do a great job. But really?! You're going to ask the 35 or so schools that are in Region 3-4A to travel completely across the state when a school that geographically sits in the region had requested to host. It would be just as nuts if they were to have given us the Region and had the west coast schools have to come over here. All to satisfy this "double region" concept? THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!! They have posted a required time schedule for the events so that all regions have as similar set ups as possible with the introduction of the at-large bids. No problem! I said right on my request that we would adhere to the schedule. So what that we have some time waiting for the next event? That time can be used to pass out the awards and actually recognize the athletes! They don't receive that at the State Meet any longer, so why not at the region level! With the new all day schedule teams will now have to travel across on Wednesday, stay overnight, compete all day Thursday until after 9:00 p.m., then decide whether to stay over the second night or make that lovely trip back across the state after being at the meet all day! That would not really be much of a decision as neither Alligator Alley (I-75) or SR60 would be my first choice to travel on in the dead of night! I just did some rough calculations and to take the same number of kids this year to the region that we did last year would cost somewhere in the range of $8000-$10000 dollars once you include transportation, lodging, and meals over three days. Then we get to do it all over again the next week to the State Meet, only that one could be a leave Thursday and return on Sunday. Another $8000-$10000 in expenses! Or trim the costs by travelling through the night. Is that really safe? I don't think so!! Looking at the sites, I'm guessing that the Region 1's for 3A and 4A are in a similar situation. Looks like we're going to send Pensacola schools all the way over the Palm Coast this year, so next year everyone will get to head to Pensacola?! That ought to go over huge!!! Oh, and all of this right when the mandated EOC and ELA testing is taking place. Won't even go there!!! I've vented enough for now. I have to go figure a way to fund raise the possible ~ $20000 we will need for these two meets. I can't imagine what the dominant teams in our region that will have huge numbers of athletes are going to do? Brantley Barr
Normally I will only post information, but after this afternoon's release of the region sites I felt it necessary to put this craziness out there. I'm probably going to tick some folks off, but I don't really care at this point as this is pure lunacy!!!

I received notice earlier today via e-mail thanking me for my request to host our Region 3-4A meet at Coral Springs High but that we were not selected. No problem, I head somewhere between my place and Vero which covers our region geographically and I get to just coach for the day. But oh no!!! Imagine my shock that our region is being sent 3+ hours all the way across the state to the west coast and Charlotte HS!! THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NUTS AND MAYBE THE CRAZIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN MY ALMOST 40 YEARS OF DOING THIS!!!! I get it that the FHSAA wants to have "double regions", but folks, there has to be some common sense here! Region 3-3A and Region 3-4A are on completely opposite coasts! I'm sure the folks at Charlotte will do a great job. But really?! You're going to ask the 35 or so schools that are in Region 3-4A to travel completely across the state when a school that geographically sits in the region had requested to host. It would be just as nuts if they were to have given us the Region and had the west coast schools have to come over here. All to satisfy this "double region" concept? THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!! They have posted a required time schedule for the events so that all regions have as similar set ups as possible with the introduction of the at-large bids. No problem! I said right on my request that we would adhere to the schedule. So what that we have some time waiting for the next event? That time can be used to pass out the awards and actually recognize the athletes! They don't receive that at the State Meet any longer, so why not at the region level! With the new all day schedule teams will now have to travel across on Wednesday, stay overnight, compete all day Thursday until after 9:00 p.m., then decide whether to stay over the second night or make that lovely trip back across the state after being at the meet all day! That would not really be much of a decision as neither Alligator Alley (I-75) or SR60 would be my first choice to travel on in the dead of night! I just did some rough calculations and to take the same number of kids this year to the region that we did last year would cost somewhere in the range of $8000-$10000 dollars once you include transportation, lodging, and meals over three days. Then we get to do it all over again the next week to the State Meet, only that one could be a leave Thursday and return on Sunday. Another $8000-$10000 in expenses! Or trim the costs by travelling through the night. Is that really safe? I don't think so!! Looking at the sites, I'm guessing that the Region 1's for 3A and 4A are in a similar situation. Looks like we're going to send Pensacola schools all the way over the Palm Coast this year, so next year everyone will get to head to Pensacola?! That ought to go over huge!!! Oh, and all of this right when the mandated EOC and ELA testing is taking place. Won't even go there!!!

I've vented enough for now. I have to go figure a way to fund raise the possible ~ $20000 we will need for these two meets. I can't imagine what the dominant teams in our region that will have huge numbers of athletes are going to do?

Brantley Barr
12/01/2017 4:09:12 PM
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The financial issue is the biggest for me. We will be missing a day for districts, dropping $5-6k, then the next week for regionals dropping $8-10k and missing 3 days of school. Followed by the next week going to state dropping $8-10k and missing another 2 days.
The financial issue is the biggest for me. We will be missing a day for districts, dropping $5-6k, then the next week for regionals dropping $8-10k and missing 3 days of school. Followed by the next week going to state dropping $8-10k and missing another 2 days.
12/02/2017 11:14:09 AM
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Distance from Pensacola to Bunnell (Flagler Palm Coast)-423 miles. Distance from Orlando to Pensacola (next year)-449 miles.
Distance from Pensacola to Bunnell (Flagler Palm Coast)-423 miles.
Distance from Orlando to Pensacola (next year)-449 miles.
12/02/2017 11:23:23 AM
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Pensacola to Atlanta-323 miles.
Pensacola to Atlanta-323 miles.
12/02/2017 11:25:36 AM
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Orlando to Atlanta-437 miles.
Orlando to Atlanta-437 miles.
12/02/2017 11:28:45 AM
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Region 1--3A-4A in Atlanta, maybe?
Region 1--3A-4A in Atlanta, maybe?
12/02/2017 11:43:14 AM
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A region meet should be competed in the region that it is, should be on a Friday or Saturday to minimize missing school. It seems like common sense should be prevail in these situations. There is still plenty of time to fix these problems and I am sure that the powers that be will find the wisdom needed to accommodate these concerns.
A region meet should be competed in the region that it is, should be on a Friday or Saturday to minimize missing school. It seems like common sense should be prevail in these situations. There is still plenty of time to fix these problems and I am sure that the powers that be will find the wisdom needed to accommodate these concerns.
12/02/2017 1:12:58 PM
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Welcome to our world! WE put in to host every year here in Brevard County but our friends 3 hours away in South Florida are related to the powers to be in Gainesville and they get to host EVERY year. So much for rotating right FHSAA?
Welcome to our world! WE put in to host every year here in Brevard County but our friends 3 hours away in South Florida are related to the powers to be in Gainesville and they get to host EVERY year. So much for rotating right FHSAA?
12/02/2017 1:36:03 PM
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Is it too late to switch back? I can't imagine very many schools are happy about this whole situation. How could they screw this up so horribly?
Is it too late to switch back? I can't imagine very many schools are happy about this whole situation. How could they screw this up so horribly?
12/02/2017 9:07:08 PM
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Too late to do what the NCAA does this year. However, in the future, why not consider set standards, meet the standard from any FAT meet, compete in two region meets conducted on the same day, preferably different locations (north and south), and then two weeks later, have the state meet to see who are the top 24, 16, and 8 (All-State) athletes and teams. Eliminate the District meets all together.
Too late to do what the NCAA does this year. However, in the future, why not consider set standards, meet the standard from any FAT meet, compete in two region meets conducted on the same day, preferably different locations (north and south), and then two weeks later, have the state meet to see who are the top 24, 16, and 8 (All-State) athletes and teams.

Eliminate the District meets all together.
12/02/2017 9:13:16 PM
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Montgomery, Alabama? 164 miles from Pensacola, and only 2 miles further than Orlando to Atlanta!
Montgomery, Alabama?
164 miles from Pensacola, and only 2 miles further than Orlando to Atlanta!
12/03/2017 2:03:39 AM
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[quote=Wolfpack]Montgomery, Alabama? 164 miles from Pensacola, and only 2 miles further than Orlando to Atlanta![/quote] @Wolfpack No decent tracks in Montgomery! No one there cares about track anymore!
Wolfpack wrote:
Montgomery, Alabama?
164 miles from Pensacola, and only 2 miles further than Orlando to Atlanta!


@Wolfpack

No decent tracks in Montgomery! No one there cares about track anymore!
12/03/2017 8:13:26 PM
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as a parent of a STUDENT/athlete in see this decision (and the dates) as irresponsible. Why not Friday and Saturday? The host schools will have classes. This is high school track and the kids are all students...should have school as priority...someone should remind FHSAA that!
as a parent of a STUDENT/athlete in see this decision (and the dates) as irresponsible. Why not Friday and Saturday? The host schools will have classes. This is high school track and the kids are all students...should have school as priority...someone should remind FHSAA that!
12/04/2017 7:41:12 AM
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Ok.... So, My 3 biggest issues with this change... #1) FHSAA is preaching consistency , but to me this change actually makes each meet in the State Series inconsistent. Districts will have 1 Time table the normal one we are all used to with 4 entries in each event per school. The Double Regional meet which is supposed to simulate the State meet, but it no longer does because now the State meet will have 3 Heats in each event (thanks to the at large bids, which I do like somewhat), and Regional though will only have 2 Heats since there is no at large bids there. All three meets will be differing time tables, which is not consistent. #2) Having the Meet on Wednesday / Thursday or Thursday / Friday is not easy for a School. Security alone is a nightmare to keep parents and students off of the campus and students from campus trying to get to the event. Also not to mention lost classroom time for the students and the coaches. Most officials also have Day jobs, which means it will not be easy to get them to have 2 weekdays in a row off for the meet. #3) The money and travel..which has been discussed above many times over.
Ok.... So, My 3 biggest issues with this change...
#1) FHSAA is preaching consistency , but to me this change actually makes each meet in the State Series inconsistent. Districts will have 1 Time table the normal one we are all used to with 4 entries in each event per school. The Double Regional meet which is supposed to simulate the State meet, but it no longer does because now the State meet will have 3 Heats in each event (thanks to the at large bids, which I do like somewhat), and Regional though will only have 2 Heats since there is no at large bids there. All three meets will be differing time tables, which is not consistent.

#2) Having the Meet on Wednesday / Thursday or Thursday / Friday is not easy for a School. Security alone is a nightmare to keep parents and students off of the campus and students from campus trying to get to the event. Also not to mention lost classroom time for the students and the coaches. Most officials also have Day jobs, which means it will not be easy to get them to have 2 weekdays in a row off for the meet.

#3) The money and travel..which has been discussed above many times over.
12/04/2017 9:33:46 AM
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1. Ok. This is a handicap to many. I spent 11 years in Palatka where we hosted 1 year and then Pensacola or Panama city hosted the next year on an alternating basis. Was it a hardship? Yes for ALL of us. Unfortunately, track coaches think if you are allowed 4 entries in an event, you need to enter 4 in each event-regardless or their abilities and they take huge Teams to the District Meet. This is the beginning of our State playoffs. We take only those who we feel have a chance to make it to the State Meet. Relay wise, we look at the State results from the year before and our performances this year and make a decision on whether to run one or not. Everyone runs in meets during the season to prove they belong in the State series. So, limit your entries. It would also help if we reduced the entries in each event from 4 to 3 thereby limiting the size of your Team going to the meet and reducing expenses. The biggest equalizer would be to NOT have Team Champions at the District level! There would be no need then to "load" up to win the meet. In Missouri, they have introduced qualifying times in order to compete in the District Meet. An individual must have produced this mark sometime during the season in order to enter them in that event in the District Meet. Philosophically, when the State Series begins, I never enter an athlete in more than 3 3vents. I enter them in only those events where they have the opportunity to advance to the State. This enhances the quality of athletes advancing to the Region and State and reduces the amount of money we expend. And lastly, in this day and age, college coaches recruit off the internet. They pour over results and rankings and one of the biggest things they look at are State Meet results to see how an athlete performs against the elite. The days of High School coaching philosophy of "when you get a horse, you ride it", are over. You "ride" them for points and not performance and ultimately you hurt them. 2. The FHSAA, specifically Ed Thompson, is attempting to sculpture a State Meet that will be second to none. Do I agree with everything? Absolutely not! However,you play the game according to the rules what ever they are. It seems we have moved from the philosophy of running the best against against the best in one heat to again running heats against. However, as the sculpturing of the State Meet continues, maybe it is time to run preliminaries in the 800, 4x800 Relay, etc. to put the best against the best on the track for the finals. It would also eliminate what I would call abusing the athlete just to score points. 3. A final comment. When the FHSAA mandated, we go to all metric measurements for the field events, Many coaches complained it was going to ruin Track and Field. This past week while attending the National Annual Meeting of USATF, John Blackburn, the Chair for the Rules Committee approached me and congratulated the State of Florida for its progressive leadership in mandating the metric system at all our High School competitions. The rest of the Nation looks at what we do and I am speculating that in the near future the entire nation will be adopting the metric system for High School track and field meets. Finally, As I have said on many occasions, I am in debt to Jimmy Carnes for having a great deal of influence shaping my career. One of the things he told me that I have and always will adhere to is: "Go to the meetings. Stand up and be heard at the meetings. ALWAYS do what is best for the sport. Not what is best for your particular situation." It is time we all do that!
1. Ok. This is a handicap to many. I spent 11 years in Palatka where we hosted 1 year and then Pensacola or Panama city hosted the next year on an alternating basis. Was it a hardship? Yes for ALL of us.

Unfortunately, track coaches think if you are allowed 4 entries in an event, you need to enter 4 in each event-regardless or their abilities and they take huge Teams to the District Meet. This is the beginning of our State playoffs. We take only those who we feel have a chance to make it to the State Meet. Relay wise, we look at the State results from the year before and our performances this year and make a decision on whether to run one or not. Everyone runs in meets during the season to prove they belong in the State series. So, limit your entries.

It would also help if we reduced the entries in each event from 4 to 3 thereby limiting the size of your Team going to the meet and reducing expenses.

The biggest equalizer would be to NOT have Team Champions at the District level! There would be no need then to "load" up to win the meet.

In Missouri, they have introduced qualifying times in order to compete in the District Meet. An individual must have produced this mark sometime during the season in order to enter them in that event in the District Meet.

Philosophically, when the State Series begins, I never enter an athlete in more than 3 3vents. I enter them in only those events where they have the opportunity to advance to the State. This enhances the quality of athletes advancing to the Region and State and reduces the amount of money we expend. And lastly, in this day and age, college coaches recruit off the internet. They pour over results and rankings and one of the biggest things they look at are State Meet results to see how an athlete performs against the elite. The days of High School coaching philosophy of "when you get a horse, you ride it", are over. You "ride" them for points and not performance and ultimately you hurt them.

2. The FHSAA, specifically Ed Thompson, is attempting to sculpture a State Meet that will be second to none. Do I agree with everything? Absolutely not! However,you play the game according to the rules what ever they are. It seems we have moved from the philosophy of running the best against against the best in one heat to again running heats against. However, as the sculpturing of the State Meet continues, maybe it is time to run preliminaries in the 800, 4x800 Relay, etc. to put the best against the best on the track for the finals. It would also eliminate what I would call abusing the athlete just to score points.

3. A final comment. When the FHSAA mandated, we go to all metric measurements for the field events, Many coaches complained it was going to ruin Track and Field. This past week while attending the National Annual Meeting of USATF, John Blackburn, the Chair for the Rules Committee approached me and congratulated the State of Florida for its progressive leadership in mandating the metric system at all our High School competitions. The rest of the Nation looks at what we do and I am speculating that in the near future the entire nation will be adopting the metric system for High School track and field meets.

Finally, As I have said on many occasions, I am in debt to Jimmy Carnes for having a great deal of influence shaping my career. One of the things he told me that I have and always will adhere to is: "Go to the meetings. Stand up and be heard at the meetings. ALWAYS do what is best for the sport. Not what is best for your particular situation." It is time we all do that!
12/04/2017 11:06:23 AM
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@Wolfpack: Better Tracks in Atlanta and nonstop flights from Orlando to Atlanta. May save money. Fly up the night before and redeye home. Something to think about--LOL.
@Wolfpack: Better Tracks in Atlanta and nonstop flights from Orlando to Atlanta. May save money. Fly up the night before and redeye home. Something to think about--LOL.
12/04/2017 11:48:02 AM
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Financial concerns are a HUGE consideration--probably the two biggest considerations when it comes to the State Meet and Regionals are money and loss of school time. In our county schools will get together on charter bus rentals for the Regional Meets and split the costs. The one thing I consider to be the biggest reason for increased costs is having the 3200 at 8:00am and field events beginning at 9:00am. It forces some schools to spend the night before. With the 4x400's beginning at 8:40pm, it allows a much more practical ending time to the meet for the trip home for MOST Teams. Those coming the farthest may have a problem. Teaming up on a Charter takes the pressure off coaches driving and even getting some sleep on the way home. In our case, when our last athlete is finished-whether it be the Region or State and we to go home. We don't stay for the rest of the meet as spectators. Loss of school time is what drives our administrators crazy. Usually you miss a full day for District, Region and two days for State-possibly three depending on the distance. We have an IB magnet, an Academy of Health Careers magnet and a huge AP program. Parents and Administrators are very reluctant for those students to miss school time. During the regular season, we do not take our students out of school to leave early for a competition. another age old question if what do you do with those athletes who don't qualify for the finals the next day but you still have to supervise them the second day. We arrange transportation home for them so avoid that problem. Finally, we have no budget from our school. Our county only gives money for supplements and nothing else. We have to raise money for everything we need. We do not charge students nor their parents for anything associated with our program. ALL expenses are our responsibility to raise. I do not believe in paying to play in any way shape or form! In Team sports, schools receive a "kick back" from gate receipts for travel, etc. Years ago-1970's, this was the case for track and field but no more. Too expensive we were told at the time. We may spend more time raising money than on coaching. But again, to play the game you have to find a way. I am in contact with High School coaches all over the USA. Some have our problems and some have everything payed for. I truly believe that High School coaches are the most resourceful,imaginative, and innovative people in athletics. WE FIND A WAY! One idea I have is to combine Districts. Districts 1 and 2 become District, etc. This makes meets much more competitive. You then take the top 8 in each event to the Region. This eliminates borderline athletes at the entry level in the State Series making a much more competitive Region--Do you old timers remember the Days when we had as many as 27 Teams in a District Meet. Only the cream advanced to the Region! It was the same in Cross Country. Finally, in Florida we are never going to be perfect due to the geographic size of the State. Long and narrow. Distance is always going to be a problem. Let's suggest and work on the BEST solution to this problem knowing the people at the extremes geographically are always going to have a disadvantage.
Financial concerns are a HUGE consideration--probably the two biggest considerations when it comes to the State Meet and Regionals are money and loss of school time.

In our county schools will get together on charter bus rentals for the Regional Meets and split the costs. The one thing I consider to be the biggest reason for increased costs is having the 3200 at 8:00am and field events beginning at 9:00am. It forces some schools to spend the night before.
With the 4x400's beginning at 8:40pm, it allows a much more practical ending time to the meet for the trip home for MOST Teams. Those coming the farthest may have a problem. Teaming up on a Charter takes the pressure off coaches driving and even getting some sleep on the way home. In our case, when our last athlete is finished-whether it be the Region or State and we to go home. We don't stay for the rest of the meet as spectators.

Loss of school time is what drives our administrators crazy. Usually you miss a full day for District, Region and two days for State-possibly three depending on the distance. We have an IB magnet, an Academy of Health Careers magnet and a huge AP program. Parents and Administrators are very reluctant for those students to miss school time. During the regular season, we do not take our students out of school to leave early for a competition.

another age old question if what do you do with those athletes who don't qualify for the finals the next day but you still have to supervise them the second day. We arrange transportation home for them so avoid that problem.

Finally, we have no budget from our school. Our county only gives money for supplements and nothing else. We have to raise money for everything we need. We do not charge students nor their parents for anything associated with our program. ALL expenses are our responsibility to raise. I do not believe in paying to play in any way shape or form!

In Team sports, schools receive a "kick back" from gate receipts for travel, etc. Years ago-1970's, this was the case for track and field but no more. Too expensive we were told at the time.

We may spend more time raising money than on coaching. But again, to play the game you have to find a way. I am in contact with High School coaches all over the USA. Some have our problems and some have everything payed for. I truly believe that High School coaches are the most resourceful,imaginative, and innovative people in athletics. WE FIND A WAY!

One idea I have is to combine Districts. Districts 1 and 2 become District, etc. This makes meets much more competitive. You then take the top 8 in each event to the Region. This eliminates borderline athletes at the entry level in the State Series making a much more competitive Region--Do you old timers remember the Days when we had as many as 27 Teams in a District Meet. Only the cream advanced to the Region! It was the same in Cross Country.

Finally, in Florida we are never going to be perfect due to the geographic size of the State. Long and narrow. Distance is always going to be a problem. Let's suggest and work on the BEST solution to this problem knowing the people at the extremes geographically are always going to have a disadvantage.
12/04/2017 12:03:10 PM
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@TJump69 [quote=TJump69] ... We take only those who we feel have a chance to make it to the State Meet..... So, limit your entries. [/quote] I have to disagree with your philosophy on this point. First, we want to develop athletes and if we only allow those who have a chance to make it to State the opportunity to run at Districts (or Region) we are going to have fewer kids come out for track, especially young ones. Second, underclassmen need the experience of running at a high stakes meet. It will make them better when they are juniors and seniors and have a chance to quality for state. Third, for many kids running at Districts and then qualifying and running at Region may be the highlight of their running career.
@TJump69
TJump69 wrote:


... We take only those who we feel have a chance to make it to the State Meet..... So, limit your entries.


I have to disagree with your philosophy on this point. First, we want to develop athletes and if we only allow those who have a chance to make it to State the opportunity to run at Districts (or Region) we are going to have fewer kids come out for track, especially young ones. Second, underclassmen need the experience of running at a high stakes meet. It will make them better when they are juniors and seniors and have a chance to quality for state. Third, for many kids running at Districts and then qualifying and running at Region may be the highlight of their running career.
12/04/2017 12:03:26 PM
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@TJump69 What was so wrong with the way we were doing regions?
@TJump69 What was so wrong with the way we were doing regions?
12/04/2017 12:19:27 PM
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@LFCSumner3 While I agree the expense of a double region is unfairly debilitating, there was something wrong with how we were doing regions. Through last year, certain regions were already double regions which afforded lots of rest and night conditions to its athletes, while other regions were trying to shove the whole meet into 4 hours. If you add at large athletes in ( based on time at region meets), the qualifying schedule should be set up should be standardized, (and run at same time) so that the region that runs a later date, wont set up races into a tailwind or with known times to beat. If region X ran a 3200 at 8:00 am and region Y ran it at 3:00 PM.... duh figure it out... That being said, the idea of a double region miffs me.I guess it makes the host money As for Coach Butler's correct observation that the Region 2 meet is in Fort Lauderdale, let me remind all in that region, that Broward is central to Brevard County and Key West. The real problem here, in this region, for the past three years, has been that the Brevard Schools should be in the region with the Orlando/Tampa schools as they were from most of 2000-2014
@LFCSumner3

While I agree the expense of a double region is unfairly debilitating, there was something wrong with how we were doing regions. Through last year, certain regions were already double regions which afforded lots of rest and night conditions to its athletes, while other regions were trying to shove the whole meet into 4 hours. If you add at large athletes in ( based on time at region meets), the qualifying schedule should be set up should be standardized, (and run at same time) so that the region that runs a later date, wont set up races into a tailwind or with known times to beat.
If region X ran a 3200 at 8:00 am and region Y ran it at 3:00 PM.... duh figure it out...

That being said, the idea of a double region miffs me.I guess it makes the host money

As for Coach Butler's correct observation that the Region 2 meet is in Fort Lauderdale, let me remind all in that region, that Broward is central to Brevard County and Key West. The real problem here, in this region, for the past three years, has been that the Brevard Schools should be in the region with the Orlando/Tampa schools as they were from most of 2000-2014

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