7th & 8th graders ??
04/27/2019 6:45:11 PM
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Why are there 7th and 8th graders from private schools competing in a high school regionals ?? I’m lost ..
Why are there 7th and 8th graders from private schools competing in a high school regionals ?? I'm lost ..
04/27/2019 10:42:06 PM
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@CoachGoingRogue Any school that is a combined middle and high school, with common administration, can have any of their students from grade 6 up compete in a high school competition. Most of these schools are private but there are public middle / high schools, too.
@CoachGoingRogue Any school that is a combined middle and high school, with common administration, can have any of their students from grade 6 up compete in a high school competition. Most of these schools are private but there are public middle / high schools, too.
04/29/2019 8:24:57 AM
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@CoachHoward I disagree with a 7th grader taking a spot merely because they're in private school. What's the point of these kids who attend public HS being made to race middle schoolers just because they're in private school ? If that's the case, let public school MS kids race too. Sounds like special privilege to me. Someone needs to change this rule, it just seems to favor the privileged kids that can afford private school. The FHSAA is for HIGH SCHOOL not middle school. I'm sure other folks find this ridiculous.
@CoachHoward I disagree with a 7th grader taking a spot merely because they're in private school. What's the point of these kids who attend public HS being made to race middle schoolers just because they're in private school ? If that's the case, let public school MS kids race too. Sounds like special privilege to me. Someone needs to change this rule, it just seems to favor the privileged kids that can afford private school. The FHSAA is for HIGH SCHOOL not middle school.

I'm sure other folks find this ridiculous.
04/29/2019 8:35:32 AM
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@CoachGoingRogue I am at the smallest public school in the state of Florida. 230 kids K-12. If we used only high school athletes at our school we could not field a basketball, baseball, volleyball, cross country or track and field team. This is not private school privilege, this is helping small schools be able to compete in team sports.
@CoachGoingRogue I am at the smallest public school in the state of Florida. 230 kids K-12. If we used only high school athletes at our school we could not field a basketball, baseball, volleyball, cross country or track and field team.

This is not private school privilege, this is helping small schools be able to compete in team sports.
04/29/2019 9:21:04 AM
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@CoachGoingRogue You're incorrect in your assessment that only private schools benefit from this.
@CoachGoingRogue

You're incorrect in your assessment that only private schools benefit from this.
04/29/2019 9:54:46 AM
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@CoachGoingRogue I've been on your side of this argument, though my position had to do with 7 years of high school eligibility. I've come around to understanding that small schools, class 1A and 2A, need this to field teams, as others have said in this thread. I do have a question for those in the know... when classifications are made are only grades 9 - 12 used to get student population with combined middle/high schools? In a school like Berkeley Prep in Tampa would only the student population 9th - 12th grade be counted or do they count the middle school kids, too, since they can compete in high school sports?
@CoachGoingRogue I've been on your side of this argument, though my position had to do with 7 years of high school eligibility. I've come around to understanding that small schools, class 1A and 2A, need this to field teams, as others have said in this thread.

I do have a question for those in the know... when classifications are made are only grades 9 - 12 used to get student population with combined middle/high schools? In a school like Berkeley Prep in Tampa would only the student population 9th - 12th grade be counted or do they count the middle school kids, too, since they can compete in high school sports?
04/29/2019 9:59:13 AM
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@CoachHoward Middle School kids are not counted
@CoachHoward
Middle School kids are not counted
04/29/2019 10:53:15 AM
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For my particular District (which has Bolles and Episcopal using Middle Schoolers), whether we counted Middle School population numbers or not, it would not change our classification. We are both on the small side of 2A and adding in the MS'ers would move us to the middle of the population for 2A, but wouldn't change the class. I point that out because I am pretty sure the OP is referencing us specifically. As stated above, this is not a public/private issue. I can think of a couple really good public school teams in our area that use MS athletes (PK Yonge, Florida High). I am sure there are examples all over the state that are similar. I have no problem with that.
For my particular District (which has Bolles and Episcopal using Middle Schoolers), whether we counted Middle School population numbers or not, it would not change our classification. We are both on the small side of 2A and adding in the MS'ers would move us to the middle of the population for 2A, but wouldn't change the class. I point that out because I am pretty sure the OP is referencing us specifically.

As stated above, this is not a public/private issue. I can think of a couple really good public school teams in our area that use MS athletes (PK Yonge, Florida High). I am sure there are examples all over the state that are similar. I have no problem with that.
04/29/2019 11:04:21 AM
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@dddd my question was really more about the large schools (class 3A and 4A) that are combined MS/HS. If only 9 - 12 population is counted I think an argument could be made to not allow those schools to use MS aged students in high school athletics, since they clearly don't need to include them to field teams. Don't know how many 3A and 4A combined schools there are, public and private, but a couple of private ones come to mind.
@dddd my question was really more about the large schools (class 3A and 4A) that are combined MS/HS. If only 9 - 12 population is counted I think an argument could be made to not allow those schools to use MS aged students in high school athletics, since they clearly don't need to include them to field teams. Don't know how many 3A and 4A combined schools there are, public and private, but a couple of private ones come to mind.
04/29/2019 11:52:35 AM
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@CoachHoward I didn't think there are any schools in 3a or 4a that have combined 7-12? In our county we have Edgewood, Westshore, Cocoa Beach, Cocoa, and Space Coast all public 2a schools that have 7-12. On second thought, does Belen have 7-8 on high school team, they are 3a.
@CoachHoward I didn't think there are any schools in 3a or 4a that have combined 7-12? In our county we have Edgewood, Westshore, Cocoa Beach, Cocoa, and Space Coast all public 2a schools that have 7-12.

On second thought, does Belen have 7-8 on high school team, they are 3a.
04/29/2019 11:53:56 AM
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@CoachHoward Since Berkeley Prep was referenced... We are on the small school side of 2A, with a 9-12 population of 640. If you added our Middle School population, we will still be in 2A, with a middle school population of about 300. Not many middle schoolers make it this far in post-season. I had two run at Regionals, neither were close to qualifying, and both qualified 4th out of Districts. Also - this is not a private school issue. There are many public schools that also use middle schoolers. In terms of fairness, there are plenty of things we could all gripe at regarding classifications, school population, etc... For example, we have been competing against several schools in our District and Region that have populations nearing 2000 students and they have been above the 2A threshold for 3 years (since the state chose to do a 4-year classification). Instead of complaining, we just competed and did the best we could for ourselves. Our sport is simple, either your faster, a better jumper, throw farther than anyone else, or you don't. I'm just tired of this argument, there are more important things we should be discussing.. Erik
@CoachHoward
Since Berkeley Prep was referenced...
We are on the small school side of 2A, with a 9-12 population of 640. If you added our Middle School population, we will still be in 2A, with a middle school population of about 300. Not many middle schoolers make it this far in post-season. I had two run at Regionals, neither were close to qualifying, and both qualified 4th out of Districts.
Also - this is not a private school issue. There are many public schools that also use middle schoolers.
In terms of fairness, there are plenty of things we could all gripe at regarding classifications, school population, etc... For example, we have been competing against several schools in our District and Region that have populations nearing 2000 students and they have been above the 2A threshold for 3 years (since the state chose to do a 4-year classification). Instead of complaining, we just competed and did the best we could for ourselves. Our sport is simple, either your faster, a better jumper, throw farther than anyone else, or you don't.
I'm just tired of this argument, there are more important things we should be discussing..
Erik
04/29/2019 11:54:09 AM
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@CoachHoward Interesting thought process pertaining to the 'necessity' argument because there are a few charter and private schools in 3A that do utilize do MS athletes for HS sports.
@CoachHoward Interesting thought process pertaining to the 'necessity' argument because there are a few charter and private schools in 3A that do utilize do MS athletes for HS sports.
04/29/2019 11:56:29 AM
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@erik Agreed. As a coach that spent 15 years at private school and now finishing up year 5 in public, RUN WHAT YA BRUNG! I hated when people complained about the private school 7-12 and still hate that complaint. Work hard with what you have and you can beat those programs.
@erik Agreed. As a coach that spent 15 years at private school and now finishing up year 5 in public, RUN WHAT YA BRUNG! I hated when people complained about the private school 7-12 and still hate that complaint. Work hard with what you have and you can beat those programs.
04/29/2019 12:39:59 PM
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@erik I agree and I only used Berkeley Prep but I am in the Bay area and knew you guys are a small school with all grades. I think the 2A classification is the least "fair" classification with numbers varying from 500ish all the way up to 1500 or so.
@erik I agree and I only used Berkeley Prep but I am in the Bay area and knew you guys are a small school with all grades. I think the 2A classification is the least "fair" classification with numbers varying from 500ish all the way up to 1500 or so.
04/29/2019 10:34:38 PM
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I also coach at a small private school in the Tampa bay area. Our High school has about 290 and the Middle school consist of about 120 kids. We are doing everything we can to field teams in some of our sports and would have to cancel many teams without the middle school kids filling holes . We try to stay competitive on the track ,and I never allow our kids to complain about being smaller than the teams we compete against. See you guys Friday at State !
I also coach at a small private school in the Tampa bay area. Our High school has about 290 and the Middle school consist of about 120 kids. We are doing everything we can to field teams in some of our sports and would have to cancel many teams without the middle school kids filling holes . We try to stay competitive on the track ,and I never allow our kids to complain about being smaller than the teams we compete against. See you guys Friday at State !
04/29/2019 11:35:59 PM
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Dillard High School,is a 3a public school with grades 7-12.
Dillard High School,is a 3a public school with grades 7-12.
04/30/2019 2:36:57 PM
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Great topic. Here is another perspective. I coach at a public high school (North Marion) and at a public middle school (Fort McCoy, middle school that is zoned for North Marion). Due to fhsaa rules, I cannot have those two teams practices together. On the surface, that arrangement seems ethical and logical. By following the rules, I consistently lose the privileged mentorship opportunities that would come standard at a 6/7-12 private school or at “admission by application public school” ( ex. PK Yonge). Currently, I have a 12th grade student ranked #1 in her class, a wonderful human being, and a cerebral athlete adept at leading younger student-athletes. She would an amazing mentor, but I cannot have her practice with/teach by modeling my middle school girls from a low income at risk school. This lost opportunity for the students in my struggling community to me is exponentially more significant than me having some extra middle school students on my high school roster for states. I definitely envy the 6-12 high school programs. Our lost mentorship opportunities are their year round privileges.
Great topic. Here is another perspective. I coach at a public high school (North Marion) and at a public middle school (Fort McCoy, middle school that is zoned for North Marion). Due to fhsaa rules, I cannot have those two teams practices together. On the surface, that arrangement seems ethical and logical.
By following the rules, I consistently lose the privileged mentorship opportunities that would come standard at a 6/7-12 private school or at "admission by application public school" ( ex. PK Yonge). Currently, I have a 12th grade student ranked #1 in her class, a wonderful human being, and a cerebral athlete adept at leading younger student-athletes. She would an amazing mentor, but I cannot have her practice with/teach by modeling my middle school girls from a low income at risk school. This lost opportunity for the students in my struggling community to me is exponentially more significant than me having some extra middle school students on my high school roster for states. I definitely envy the 6-12 high school programs. Our lost mentorship opportunities are their year round privileges.

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