Five meets requirement and javelin
03/01/2020 8:41:53 PM
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First I want to ask if a program has purchased the equipment for javelin why is it a rule that a program who has not purchased the equipment allowed to use the equipment of another school what happens if a javelin is damaged by a school who is using the javelin second why do we have a five meet requirements when not all invitationals are not offering this particular event?
First I want to ask if a program has purchased the equipment for javelin why is it a rule that a program who has not purchased the equipment allowed to use the equipment of another school what happens if a javelin is damaged by a school who is using the javelin second why do we have a five meet requirements when not all invitationals are not offering this particular event?
03/01/2020 9:01:56 PM
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@step1 There is no rule for that. Hopefully, the school borrowing the implement that broke has enough integrity to replace or reimburse the school that owned the equipment. The school loaning the equipment should also have enough integrity to no loan or seek retribution for equipment that broke when it was already old/excessively used up. Hurdles break all the time as well as cross bars. Should the host school seek reimbursement from the school of the athlete who broke those items in competition. In my opinion...no. Things breaking is just the nature of the sport. Just, be sure to purchase multiple items of whatever you have because it is only a matter of time before something breaks. The 5-meet rule does not specify that the athlete must compete in the same event 5 times. So, find another event your athlete can attempt.
@step1
There is no rule for that.

Hopefully, the school borrowing the implement that broke has enough integrity to replace or reimburse the school that owned the equipment. The school loaning the equipment should also have enough integrity to no loan or seek retribution for equipment that broke when it was already old/excessively used up.

Hurdles break all the time as well as cross bars. Should the host school seek reimbursement from the school of the athlete who broke those items in competition. In my opinion...no. Things breaking is just the nature of the sport. Just, be sure to purchase multiple items of whatever you have because it is only a matter of time before something breaks.

The 5-meet rule does not specify that the athlete must compete in the same event 5 times. So, find another event your athlete can attempt.
03/02/2020 7:22:42 AM
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Maybe the way this should be addressed is to say that there haven't been many meets who have been willing to run the javelin event, thus so far for the athlete interested in participating in the javelin event during the state series there have been limited opportunities to participate and improve. The situation is far worse for middle-school athletes who want to do it. Unfortunately, this was to be expected. There just aren't enough people who know what it takes to host the javelin event (from scheduling, facilities to officiating). I've told my young javelin throwers that they need to be very patient as it will most certainly take some time (years) before it's better understood and accepted as part of a regular track meet. What gets me are bigger meets like the Sam Burley this upcoming Friday in which they decided they don't want to offer up javelin to varsity athletes or both javelin and discus to middle school competitors. If done correctly (with reasonable minimums since this is a showcase meet), both could be done fairly quickly. More missed opportunities for athletes.
Maybe the way this should be addressed is to say that there haven't been many meets who have been willing to run the javelin event, thus so far for the athlete interested in participating in the javelin event during the state series there have been limited opportunities to participate and improve. The situation is far worse for middle-school athletes who want to do it.

Unfortunately, this was to be expected. There just aren't enough people who know what it takes to host the javelin event (from scheduling, facilities to officiating). I've told my young javelin throwers that they need to be very patient as it will most certainly take some time (years) before it's better understood and accepted as part of a regular track meet.

What gets me are bigger meets like the Sam Burley this upcoming Friday in which they decided they don't want to offer up javelin to varsity athletes or both javelin and discus to middle school competitors. If done correctly (with reasonable minimums since this is a showcase meet), both could be done fairly quickly.

More missed opportunities for athletes.
03/02/2020 8:46:49 AM
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@Coach_PTS Meets without offering javelin...This may be due to not having the facilities. No safe approach runway or sector to have the event. High school facilities were not built with javelin approach runways or the steeple chase pit. Why? Because it is an increase in cost and there was no reason to spend that money (events are/were not part of the FHSAA events). I've been involved in the sport of track & field since 1987 and the javelin event is finally here. Will the 2K steeple chase event make an appearance in the future? If and when it does, many meet hosts will not be able to offer it as their facilities will not have a pit. It is similar to many meet hosts who currently do not offer pole vault due to not having a pit. There is also the possibility of a meet host lacking: 1) Event knowledge for safety purposes 2) Logistical knowledge to come up with a make-shift runway/sector 3) The want/will to learn about the previous 2 4) or the meet host does not care In a couple of years, most meets will probably offer the event...For now, it will remain a lost opportunity at several meets.
@Coach_PTS

Meets without offering javelin...This may be due to not having the facilities. No safe approach runway or sector to have the event. High school facilities were not built with javelin approach runways or the steeple chase pit. Why? Because it is an increase in cost and there was no reason to spend that money (events are/were not part of the FHSAA events).

I've been involved in the sport of track & field since 1987 and the javelin event is finally here. Will the 2K steeple chase event make an appearance in the future? If and when it does, many meet hosts will not be able to offer it as their facilities will not have a pit. It is similar to many meet hosts who currently do not offer pole vault due to not having a pit.

There is also the possibility of a meet host lacking:
1) Event knowledge for safety purposes
2) Logistical knowledge to come up with a make-shift runway/sector
3) The want/will to learn about the previous 2
4) or the meet host does not care

In a couple of years, most meets will probably offer the event...For now, it will remain a lost opportunity at several meets.
03/02/2020 10:02:32 AM
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@multijumps I agree with you but Oddly enough though Burly meet is at Tropical Park which has a rubber javelin surface>!!
@multijumps

I agree with you but Oddly enough though Burly meet is at Tropical Park which has a rubber javelin surface>!!
03/02/2020 10:48:54 AM
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I always hate to jump in on these discussions, but I will try to make certain that the 2 basic rules in question are addressed. 1. A javelin is the property of the individual or school that they are competing with. Javelins DO NOT have to be shared, and can only be used by another with permission. All district meets and regional meets must have the javelin event. 2. The correct statement was made in a prior post. To qualify for the state series, an individual must compete in 5 events .... not all the same event at each meet. To count as participating, the athlete must be listed for the event, must report to the clerk, must report to the starting line, and must start the race. If they then take a step off the starting line and walk off the track, they will be shown as DNF ( did not finish) and it will count for a meet.
I always hate to jump in on these discussions, but I will try to make certain that the 2 basic rules in question are addressed.
1. A javelin is the property of the individual or school that they are competing with. Javelins DO NOT have to be shared, and can only be used by another with permission. All district meets and regional meets must have the javelin event.
2. The correct statement was made in a prior post. To qualify for the state series, an individual must compete in 5 events .... not all the same event at each meet. To count as participating, the athlete must be listed for the event, must report to the clerk, must report to the starting line, and must start the race. If they then take a step off the starting line and walk off the track, they will be shown as DNF ( did not finish) and it will count for a meet.
03/02/2020 11:20:58 AM
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@snowbird I believe if implements are weighed in / measured and kept by the officials to later be carted out to the throwing event (happens at the state meet), then any participant is allowed to use any implement. Any time I had a state qualifier in the shot, I used to sit with my throwers to watch every shot being weighed. Since many shots exceed the minimum 4Kg or 12 lbs., I would tell my thrower to use the lightest one during competition. Sometimes, we had the lightest shot and sometimes we didn't, when we didn't....we used the shot of the school/person who had the lightest one.
@snowbird
I believe if implements are weighed in / measured and kept by the officials to later be carted out to the throwing event (happens at the state meet), then any participant is allowed to use any implement.

Any time I had a state qualifier in the shot, I used to sit with my throwers to watch every shot being weighed. Since many shots exceed the minimum 4Kg or 12 lbs., I would tell my thrower to use the lightest one during competition.

Sometimes, we had the lightest shot and sometimes we didn't, when we didn't....we used the shot of the school/person who had the lightest one.
03/02/2020 11:23:11 AM
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@mbecker In that case, then it may be #4 on my list.
@mbecker

In that case, then it may be #4 on my list.
03/02/2020 11:37:05 AM
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Now you know why I hate to respond to these posts. Again, that is not the case with the javelin. They are the property of the individual/school are can not be shared without permission. You are correct with the shot, as it is hard to ruin a hard steel ball. The state meet will have "common implements" in the javelin supplied by the meet host, just as they do for all throwing events at the state meet. If I am the meet official, no one borrows another discus without owner permission,as I know the cost of a good discus to be several hundred $$$$. To further correct you, Girls throw a 4Kg 8.818 lbs. Boys throw a 5.443 Kg 12 lbs.
Now you know why I hate to respond to these posts. Again, that is not the case with the javelin. They are the property of the individual/school are can not be shared without permission. You are correct with the shot, as it is hard to ruin a hard steel ball. The state meet will have "common implements" in the javelin supplied by the meet host, just as they do for all throwing events at the state meet. If I am the meet official, no one borrows another discus without owner permission,as I know the cost of a good discus to be several hundred $$$$. To further correct you, Girls throw a 4Kg 8.818 lbs. Boys throw a 5.443 Kg 12 lbs.
03/02/2020 12:43:17 PM
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[quote=mbecker]@multijumps I agree with you but Oddly enough though Burly meet is at Tropical Park which has a rubber javelin surface>!! [/quote] YES. Tropical is one of the few places in South Florida that actually has the correct facility to accommodate javelin. As for the facilities that don't have a rubber runway, I've seen (and have used) the grassy surface as the runway. This works well provided the throwers have proper footwear (soccer cleats are what I have my javelin throwers use). As for implements, javelin, discus and shot, I have told my throwers to NEVER share (have had them broken, lost/taken in the past) and if they feel bad about turning someone who asks down, to just put it on me.
mbecker wrote:
@multijumps

I agree with you but Oddly enough though Burly meet is at Tropical Park which has a rubber javelin surface>!!



YES. Tropical is one of the few places in South Florida that actually has the correct facility to accommodate javelin. As for the facilities that don't have a rubber runway, I've seen (and have used) the grassy surface as the runway. This works well provided the throwers have proper footwear (soccer cleats are what I have my javelin throwers use).

As for implements, javelin, discus and shot, I have told my throwers to NEVER share (have had them broken, lost/taken in the past) and if they feel bad about turning someone who asks down, to just put it on me.
03/03/2020 8:59:33 PM
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To be clear, USATF has a rule about sharing implements, but not the NFHS. High School meets - you do NOT have to share implements. You are allowed to, but do not have to. The meet host is supposed to provide some community implements for competitors to use in case the competitors do not have one or their implement does not pass inspection. At USATF meets, once an implement passes inspection, the implement "loses it's identity" and can be used by anyone. The exception is the javelin at youth events. They never lose their identity according to rule 302.5(g) USATF 187.10 10. In all throwing event competitions, Championship and non-championship, implements should be provided by the Games Committee. However, implements that comply with required specifications and belong to individuals may also be accepted by the Games Committee as implements provided by it. And as so accepted, they shall lose their identity as privately owned implements for the duration of the competition and no modification may be made to these implements during the competition. No additional implements may be taken to the area for competition or practice. NOTE: For Youth Athletics exception see Rule 302.5(g). For Masters exception see Rule 332.3(f). USATF Rule 302.5(g) (g) Privately owned javelins shall be exempt from the loss-of-identity rule (Rule 187.10).
To be clear, USATF has a rule about sharing implements, but not the NFHS.

High School meets - you do NOT have to share implements. You are allowed to, but do not have to. The meet host is supposed to provide some community implements for competitors to use in case the competitors do not have one or their implement does not pass inspection.

At USATF meets, once an implement passes inspection, the implement "loses it's identity" and can be used by anyone. The exception is the javelin at youth events. They never lose their identity according to rule 302.5(g)

USATF 187.10
10. In all throwing event competitions, Championship and non-championship, implements should be provided by the Games Committee. However, implements that comply with required specifications and belong to individuals may also be accepted by the Games Committee as implements provided by it. And as so accepted, they shall lose their identity as privately owned implements for the duration of the competition and no modification may be made to these implements during the competition. No additional implements may be taken to the area for competition or practice.
NOTE: For Youth Athletics exception see Rule 302.5(g). For Masters exception see Rule 332.3(f).

USATF Rule 302.5(g)
(g) Privately owned javelins shall be exempt from the loss-of-identity rule (Rule 187.10).

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