2011 NCHSAA State Meet POP Sheet Strict Deadline Lead to Meet Change
01/30/2011 12:25:09 AM
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I just saw this on NC Prep: Tuesday, Feb. 1 -- Last Chance Meet (Reid Ross School, Fayetteville) Coaches, South View is hosting a last chance meet at Reid Ross in Fayetteville on Tuesday, February 1st. (Note: This meet was originally slated to be run on Wednesday, February 2nd, with everyone having an opportunity to postmark their entries by that night. The State Meet directors (Coach Mittman and Coach Lassiter) want the paperwork in their hands by Wednesday night.) Coach John Buchholz of Pinecrest is going to drive the paperwork (entry forms, POP forms, etc.) for coaches attending this meet up to Greensboro the next morning to ensure it is in the appropriate hands by the deadline. I do not understand why this meet had to be changed. But I want to. This is ridiculous to me. I guess the Coach Mittman and Lassiter expect the state meet entries to be so crushingly large this year that the NCHSAA staff will not be able to handle the volume. As in WSFC there is a meet scheduled for Weds. Feb 2 at Reagan High School. Does this mean mean we are running for fun and that qualifying times from this meet may not count unless someone drives the results to the State Meet Director's home ( Mittman and Lassiter) as I am sure they will not be in the office at the conclusion of the meet much less long enough for coaches to get to a computer and include the results on the Direct Athletics confirmation sheet? I hope that these coaches have published a home address or are planning to have a staff member at the home office till midnight on February 2. I am confused. I can not believe that given the bizzareness of this "indoor" season that the NCHSAA is being so hardcore and will not accept entries first thing Wednesday morning. I do not understand this stance? Can anyone make sense of this?
I just saw this on NC Prep:

Tuesday, Feb. 1 -- Last Chance Meet (Reid Ross School, Fayetteville)

Coaches,
South View is hosting a last chance meet at Reid Ross in Fayetteville on Tuesday, February 1st. (Note: This meet was originally slated to be run on Wednesday, February 2nd, with everyone having an opportunity to postmark their entries by that night. The State Meet directors (Coach Mittman and Coach Lassiter) want the paperwork in their hands by Wednesday night.) Coach John Buchholz of Pinecrest is going to drive the paperwork (entry forms, POP forms, etc.) for coaches attending this meet up to Greensboro the next morning to ensure it is in the appropriate hands by the deadline.

I do not understand why this meet had to be changed. But I want to. This is ridiculous to me. I guess the Coach Mittman and Lassiter expect the state meet entries to be so crushingly large this year that the NCHSAA staff will not be able to handle the volume.

As in WSFC there is a meet scheduled for Weds. Feb 2 at Reagan High School. Does this mean mean we are running for fun and that qualifying times from this meet may not count unless someone drives the results to the State Meet Director's home ( Mittman and Lassiter) as I am sure they will not be in the office at the conclusion of the meet much less long enough for coaches to get to a computer and include the results on the Direct Athletics confirmation sheet? I hope that these coaches have published a home address or are planning to have a staff member at the home office till midnight on February 2.

I am confused. I can not believe that given the bizzareness of this "indoor" season that the NCHSAA is being so hardcore and will not accept entries first thing Wednesday morning.

I do not understand this stance? Can anyone make sense of this?
01/30/2011 8:11:20 AM
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@jrayfield There is nothing new here. The deadline has always been ten days ahead of the meet, and you always have to have the entries in their hands by then. The folks in Fayetteville just decided to drive them up on Wednesday. In Forsyth County, we have always had someone drive the results and entries over to Greensboro after the last meet. That will still be the case although the weather might be a problem for Reagan's meet. Also, the meet directors are not NCHSAA staff, they are coaches and teachers. The NCHSAA does not run the state meet, it is coaches that do everything (except timing). Coach Lassiter is from Ben Smith, and Coach Mittman is at Andrews in High Point. Now, we can debate the efficacy of having anything hand-delivered in this day and age, and also we could argue over whether the system used for indoor track is antique and ponderous compared to that used for spring regionals. But no meet directors should have been surprised by the deadline requirements.
@jrayfield There is nothing new here. The deadline has always been ten days ahead of the meet, and you always have to have the entries in their hands by then. The folks in Fayetteville just decided to drive them up on Wednesday. In Forsyth County, we have always had someone drive the results and entries over to Greensboro after the last meet. That will still be the case although the weather might be a problem for Reagan's meet.

Also, the meet directors are not NCHSAA staff, they are coaches and teachers. The NCHSAA does not run the state meet, it is coaches that do everything (except timing). Coach Lassiter is from Ben Smith, and Coach Mittman is at Andrews in High Point.

Now, we can debate the efficacy of having anything hand-delivered in this day and age, and also we could argue over whether the system used for indoor track is antique and ponderous compared to that used for spring regionals. But no meet directors should have been surprised by the deadline requirements.
01/30/2011 9:19:21 AM
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The weather has benn very harsh. The athletes have done their best and keep trying to qualify in "freezing" weather. I still have not heard who has qualified. I doubt many and these guys need a week and a half to do the performance sheets??? Let the kids try to qualify, the weather is supposed to be better this week. But they probably do not read this site because they know it all. Maybe new directors are in order. My runner has qualified in 4 events but he is a senior. I hope you guys keep pushing for changes
The weather has benn very harsh. The athletes have done their best and keep trying to qualify in "freezing" weather. I still have not heard who has qualified. I doubt many and these guys need a week and a half to do the performance sheets??? Let the kids try to qualify, the weather is supposed to be better this week. But they probably do not read this site because they know it all. Maybe new directors are in order. My runner has qualified in 4 events but he is a senior. I hope you guys keep pushing for changes
01/30/2011 10:01:48 AM
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@CoachGeorgeRJR- Thanks I knew I could count on you to provide insight.
@CoachGeorgeRJR- Thanks I knew I could count on you to provide insight.
01/31/2011 4:17:15 PM
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[quote=burlgra]The weather has benn very harsh. The athletes have done their best and keep trying to qualify in "freezing" weather. I still have not heard who has qualified. I doubt many and these guys need a week and a half to do the performance sheets??? Let the kids try to qualify, the weather is supposed to be better this week. But they probably do not read this site because they know it all. Maybe new directors are in order. My runner has qualified in 4 events but he is a senior. I hope you guys keep pushing for changes[/quote] @burlgra I will assume that you know absolutely nothing about the indoor meet and how it is run in this state. I can make this assumption because you made an assumption. Your assumption is that the two meet directors are know-it-alls who have no clue as to what is happening in this state. You are dead wrong and need to apologize to both of those gentlemen. I happen to work very closely with both those men as we prepare to run the indoor/winter meet. The NCHSAA allows us 10 days to gather entries, verify entries, scour results from published and non-published meets to ensure all athletes that have qualified are correct and entered to compete. All of this happens on the Saturday before the meet. We then print verification forms, programs and other things for coaches and put together packets for each team (no matter what size) that is attending either meet. Some of you think all that is done is a download of the entries, set up heats and fire the gun. If that was all, any coach would volunteer to run a meet. Any head coach would tell you if they can get out of running a meet, they would. Along the lines of getting new state meet directors, are you willing to be a regional meet director for outdoor track? How about the conference meet director? I am of the belief that until you have run a championship meet, you have no idea what it takes to run a state meet. Are you willing to meet with NCHSAA at least 3 times during the year (September-April) for day-long planning sessions? Did I mention these meeting take place during the week (no weekends) and ALL regional and state directors MUST attend? Are you ready to organize 100+ officials and volunteers for each meet? Last question......Are you really ready to listen/read the complaints of every non-objective coach/parent/fan who is disgruntled because something is not running the way they want AND they have not taken the time to familiarize themselves with the proper rules and regulations of this perfect sport? And all with absolutely, positively NO PAY!! Yes, I take criticism of those in charge of running my sport very personal. I do because I know they are making the best decisions they can with all the information and resources they have available. It is amazing that the only ones who are complaining on this forum are parents. Yes, coaches are upset and some I know for sure will not bring their athletes to Fayetteville. That is between them, their parents and their administration. Some are griping about records and side notes -- it is only a side note because you make it so. For some athletes, it is another state championship and they will compete to the best of their abilities. If they have good coaches, they will understand that every athlete is running under the same conditions. The winner will be determined by who handles those conditions the best. When I start coaching 10 years ago in Michigan, we had a regional meet on May 31st. It was 31 degrees and snowing at 9am when we started. At 12 noon, it was 39 degrees. The team that won that day scored 193 points that day. Candice Davis, former hurdler for Southern Cal, ran for Ann Arbor Pioneer and set national qualifing marks in the 100 hurdles and the long jump that day. My girls complained until they saw her run her hurdle pre-lims -- from that point on, there was no need to complain. Running is running no matter what the weather conditions may be.
burlgra wrote:
The weather has benn very harsh. The athletes have done their best and keep trying to qualify in "freezing" weather. I still have not heard who has qualified. I doubt many and these guys need a week and a half to do the performance sheets??? Let the kids try to qualify, the weather is supposed to be better this week. But they probably do not read this site because they know it all. Maybe new directors are in order. My runner has qualified in 4 events but he is a senior. I hope you guys keep pushing for changes


@burlgra I will assume that you know absolutely nothing about the indoor meet and how it is run in this state. I can make this assumption because you made an assumption. Your assumption is that the two meet directors are know-it-alls who have no clue as to what is happening in this state. You are dead wrong and need to apologize to both of those gentlemen.

I happen to work very closely with both those men as we prepare to run the indoor/winter meet. The NCHSAA allows us 10 days to gather entries, verify entries, scour results from published and non-published meets to ensure all athletes that have qualified are correct and entered to compete. All of this happens on the Saturday before the meet. We then print verification forms, programs and other things for coaches and put together packets for each team (no matter what size) that is attending either meet. Some of you think all that is done is a download of the entries, set up heats and fire the gun. If that was all, any coach would volunteer to run a meet. Any head coach would tell you if they can get out of running a meet, they would.

Along the lines of getting new state meet directors, are you willing to be a regional meet director for outdoor track? How about the conference meet director? I am of the belief that until you have run a championship meet, you have no idea what it takes to run a state meet. Are you willing to meet with NCHSAA at least 3 times during the year (September-April) for day-long planning sessions? Did I mention these meeting take place during the week (no weekends) and ALL regional and state directors MUST attend? Are you ready to organize 100+ officials and volunteers for each meet? Last question......Are you really ready to listen/read the complaints of every non-objective coach/parent/fan who is disgruntled because something is not running the way they want AND they have not taken the time to familiarize themselves with the proper rules and regulations of this perfect sport? And all with absolutely, positively NO PAY!!

Yes, I take criticism of those in charge of running my sport very personal. I do because I know they are making the best decisions they can with all the information and resources they have available. It is amazing that the only ones who are complaining on this forum are parents. Yes, coaches are upset and some I know for sure will not bring their athletes to Fayetteville. That is between them, their parents and their administration. Some are griping about records and side notes -- it is only a side note because you make it so. For some athletes, it is another state championship and they will compete to the best of their abilities. If they have good coaches, they will understand that every athlete is running under the same conditions. The winner will be determined by who handles those conditions the best.

When I start coaching 10 years ago in Michigan, we had a regional meet on May 31st. It was 31 degrees and snowing at 9am when we started. At 12 noon, it was 39 degrees. The team that won that day scored 193 points that day. Candice Davis, former hurdler for Southern Cal, ran for Ann Arbor Pioneer and set national qualifing marks in the 100 hurdles and the long jump that day. My girls complained until they saw her run her hurdle pre-lims -- from that point on, there was no need to complain. Running is running no matter what the weather conditions may be.
01/31/2011 5:26:19 PM
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@coach_eazy Good points. The whiners and complainers have no idea what is involved.
@coach_eazy

Good points. The whiners and complainers have no idea what is involved.
01/31/2011 7:10:32 PM
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@coach_eazy BI BO MO :)
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BI BO MO :)
02/01/2011 7:54:05 PM
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I keep hearing that Reid Ross does not have a pole vault pit yet. Is this true? I really have no idea because I have not been to the track before. But if it is, how do they plan on having pole vault at the state championships?
I keep hearing that Reid Ross does not have a pole vault pit yet. Is this true? I really have no idea because I have not been to the track before. But if it is, how do they plan on having pole vault at the state championships?
02/02/2011 2:28:20 PM
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@CavVaulter99 It is my understanding that a pole vault runway and pit were put in when the track was re-done. The person to ask would be Eric Morrell. He can give you all the specifics on the pole vault for the Winter Track Championships.
@CavVaulter99 It is my understanding that a pole vault runway and pit were put in when the track was re-done. The person to ask would be Eric Morrell. He can give you all the specifics on the pole vault for the Winter Track Championships.
02/03/2011 12:42:53 PM
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@coach_eazy The State Meet Direct Athletics Confirmation list with all eligible NCHSAA State Meet participants was posted at 8:30AM. Does anyone know why Danielle Davis is not in any event at the 4 A State meet. That is strange as she is the premier hurdler and long jumper in the state.
@coach_eazy The State Meet Direct Athletics Confirmation list with all eligible NCHSAA State Meet participants was posted at 8:30AM. Does anyone know why Danielle Davis is not in any event at the 4 A State meet. That is strange as she is the premier hurdler and long jumper in the state.
02/03/2011 3:29:55 PM
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[quote=jrayfield]@coach_eazy The State Meet Direct Athletics Confirmation list with all eligible NCHSAA State Meet participants was posted at 8:30AM. Does anyone know why Danielle Davis is not in any event at the 4 A State meet. That is strange as she is the premier hurdler and long jumper in the state.[/quote] @jrayfield No athlete from Southeast Raliegh is entered in the meet -- at this time. I say that because they may be entered at a later time (tonight or tomorrow) with a monetary fine attached. You are correct, Miss Davis is one of the premeir athletes in this state and we would miss her presence at the state meet; however, we will not cry if she does not attend. We will praise those who run to the best of their abilities and award medals without caveats. You can not win if you don't run and don't come later with the "If s/he was here...." I am extemely proud of athletes that have committed to run and the coaches who are sticking with indoor track during this unusual season. Kudos to all who have done what was necessary to keep this most excellent sport alive and well in North Carolina!
jrayfield wrote:
@coach_eazy The State Meet Direct Athletics Confirmation list with all eligible NCHSAA State Meet participants was posted at 8:30AM. Does anyone know why Danielle Davis is not in any event at the 4 A State meet. That is strange as she is the premier hurdler and long jumper in the state.


@jrayfield No athlete from Southeast Raliegh is entered in the meet -- at this time. I say that because they may be entered at a later time (tonight or tomorrow) with a monetary fine attached.

You are correct, Miss Davis is one of the premeir athletes in this state and we would miss her presence at the state meet; however, we will not cry if she does not attend. We will praise those who run to the best of their abilities and award medals without caveats. You can not win if you don't run and don't come later with the "If s/he was here...."

I am extemely proud of athletes that have committed to run and the coaches who are sticking with indoor track during this unusual season. Kudos to all who have done what was necessary to keep this most excellent sport alive and well in North Carolina!
02/03/2011 6:32:31 PM
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@coach_eazy Well said!
@coach_eazy
Well said!
02/03/2011 7:42:48 PM
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@coach_eazy I don't know Dannielle's circumstances, but I don't believe it has anything to do with disrespecting the meet. As the father of a sprinter, I know that short sprint athletes are at a higher risk of injury in cold weather and you can't criticize a coach or parent for wanting to protect their runners. There is a reason why sprinters don't run in the cold. Long distance athletes are not as likely to pull a hamstring or quad during their races because there is less stress put on the muscles, but it is different for sprinters. Any one who cares for there runners (sprinters) would be leary of this meet.Who cares what other peole think?
@coach_eazy I don't know Dannielle's circumstances, but I don't believe it has anything to do with disrespecting the meet. As the father of a sprinter, I know that short sprint athletes are at a higher risk of injury in cold weather and you can't criticize a coach or parent for wanting to protect their runners. There is a reason why sprinters don't run in the cold. Long distance athletes are not as likely to pull a hamstring or quad during their races because there is less stress put on the muscles, but it is different for sprinters. Any one who cares for there runners (sprinters) would be leary of this meet.Who cares what other peole think?
02/07/2011 10:38:49 PM
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@burlgra I drove to Greensboro this weekend to help the two Indoor meet directors sort through all the POP's, the entry sheets, and the plethora of other papers that we must check to insure that the athletes are actually supposed to be in the Indoor State. None of the 17 people in attendance were members of NCHSAA nor were any of us paid! For those who do not know. The reason that we moved to the POPs with meet director signatures, the coaches' signatures, and then a compilation on a school sheet of all the school's entries was really simple. People cheated! This is a way to eliminate those who are less than honest, and it gives those who earned a spot a chance to run with the best. Yes it was cold, wet, windy, snowy, sleety, and some other things. This is the nature of the beast. My team was cold just as all the others; if it were easy and soft, it would be called________(fill in the blank). J Alan Peoples Head Coach: Polk County NCTCCCA; Immediate past president
@burlgra
I drove to Greensboro this weekend to help the two Indoor meet directors sort through all the POP's, the entry sheets, and the plethora of other papers that we must check to insure that the athletes are actually supposed to be in the Indoor State. None of the 17 people in attendance were members of NCHSAA nor were any of us paid!

For those who do not know. The reason that we moved to the POPs with meet director signatures, the coaches' signatures, and then a compilation on a school sheet of all the school's entries was really simple. People cheated! This is a way to eliminate those who are less than honest, and it gives those who earned a spot a chance to run with the best.

Yes it was cold, wet, windy, snowy, sleety, and some other things. This is the nature of the beast. My team was cold just as all the others; if it were easy and soft, it would be called________(fill in the blank).
J Alan Peoples
Head Coach: Polk County
NCTCCCA; Immediate past president
02/08/2011 5:15:16 PM
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@apeoples Coach,thanks to you and to the other dedicated coaches that gave up their Saturday to get this info ready for the state championship meet. Is the information out on Direct Athletics now "final" or are their still adjustments to be made based on the work this past weekend? Again, thanks.
@apeoples
Coach,thanks to you and to the other dedicated coaches that gave up their Saturday to get this info ready for the state championship meet.
Is the information out on Direct Athletics now "final" or are their still adjustments to be made based on the work this past weekend?
Again, thanks.
02/08/2011 9:54:19 PM
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@blueskydwg I have not checked the lists lately; however, I do know that some changes were made because of errors. There were some runners that were removed because of faulty rounding, lack of verifying signatures, and probably some other problems. I can only speak from the ones I checked. I then called the coaches and handled the problem if possible. If it were not within my realm, I passed it on to the State Meet director. Alan
@blueskydwg
I have not checked the lists lately; however, I do know that some changes were made because of errors. There were some runners that were removed because of faulty rounding, lack of verifying signatures, and probably some other problems. I can only speak from the ones I checked. I then called the coaches and handled the problem if possible. If it were not within my realm, I passed it on to the State Meet director.
Alan
02/08/2011 10:08:19 PM
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@blueskydwg Official performance lists are now posted on the page for each of the meets, accessible from the front page.
@blueskydwg Official performance lists are now posted on the page for each of the meets, accessible from the front page.
02/09/2011 12:18:43 AM
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@apeoples I also appreciate your efforts to set the record straight as one in the know regarding NCHSAA track matters. After reviewing the final performance list for the 4A State meet I am puzzled by the fact that there were a number of athletes included in events that did not meet the standard. I can understand this if there were less than 16 that met the standard but several of the accepted entries are pretty far off. Can you give some insight into what the meet director's criteria really was as it obviously was not the stated standard alone. If you qualify in other events do you get special consideration because you are going to be at the meet anyway. Does the meet director have complete discretion to accept any entry? I am sure that most coaches do not read standard to mean a loose suggestion. Here are some examples: These I can not believe were accepted. 19 469 Hannah Hensley 10 Pinecrest 7.64 7.44 15 479 Abby Snyder 11 Pinecrest 9.64 9.44 Others 15 503 Sarah Justice 12 Ragsdale 42.54 42.50 16 406 Trikeria Johnson 11 North Meckle 42.54 42.50 17 4 Gabby Robinson 10 Apex 42.74 42.50 18 579 Darlene Girardeau 11 South View 42.74 42.50 18 582 Andria Wren 10 South View 1:22.04 1.22 19 701 Julia Roberts 11 Watauga 1:22.14 1.22 20 494 Arden Mattachini 11 Providence 1:22.14 1.22 21 405 Melisa Helm 11 North Meckle 1:22.24 1.22 It really does appear to pay to be bold and submit non-standard meeting performances and let the meet directors excluded you. I think that next year the submissions of non-standard meeting performances will skyrocket based on this year's results. Why not all they can do is say no what do you have to lose.
@apeoples I also appreciate your efforts to set the record straight as one in the know regarding NCHSAA track matters.

After reviewing the final performance list for the 4A State meet I am puzzled by the fact that there were a number of athletes included in events that did not meet the standard. I can understand this if there were less than 16 that met the standard but several of the accepted entries are pretty far off. Can you give some insight into what the meet director's criteria really was as it obviously was not the stated standard alone. If you qualify in other events do you get special consideration because you are going to be at the meet anyway. Does the meet director have complete discretion to accept any entry? I am sure that most coaches do not read standard to mean a loose suggestion.

Here are some examples:

These I can not believe were accepted.

19 469 Hannah Hensley 10 Pinecrest 7.64 7.44
15 479 Abby Snyder 11 Pinecrest 9.64 9.44

Others
15 503 Sarah Justice 12 Ragsdale 42.54 42.50
16 406 Trikeria Johnson 11 North Meckle 42.54 42.50
17 4 Gabby Robinson 10 Apex 42.74 42.50
18 579 Darlene Girardeau 11 South View 42.74 42.50
18 582 Andria Wren 10 South View 1:22.04 1.22
19 701 Julia Roberts 11 Watauga 1:22.14 1.22
20 494 Arden Mattachini 11 Providence 1:22.14 1.22
21 405 Melisa Helm 11 North Meckle 1:22.24 1.22

It really does appear to pay to be bold and submit non-standard meeting performances and let the meet directors excluded you. I think that next year the submissions of non-standard meeting performances will skyrocket based on this year's results. Why not all they can do is say no what do you have to lose.
02/09/2011 2:38:07 AM
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@jrayfield Those are all hand times, and hand times look slower on here. Each hand time has 0.24 seconds added on to it, [i]in addition[/i] to being rounded up in tenths. Hannah Hensely could have run a 7.32 according to her hand-timer, but that first counts as 7.4 on the meet results page, then 7.64 on the athlete's page. Of course, it probably wasn't as fast as 7.32, but it certainly wasn't as slow as 7.64 either.
@jrayfield

Those are all hand times, and hand times look slower on here. Each hand time has 0.24 seconds added on to it, in addition to being rounded up in tenths. Hannah Hensely could have run a 7.32 according to her hand-timer, but that first counts as 7.4 on the meet results page, then 7.64 on the athlete's page. Of course, it probably wasn't as fast as 7.32, but it certainly wasn't as slow as 7.64 either.
02/09/2011 3:40:27 AM
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Girls: 1. Wakefield 2. TC Roberson
Girls:
1. Wakefield
2. TC Roberson

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