Poll: ? of the Day: Do you like the idea of a race at Oak Hills in early November?

Option Votes Score
YES 18 23%
NO 62 78%
80 Votes

Vote!
? of the Day: Do you like the idea of a race at Oak Hills in early November?
10/02/2013 12:04:56 PM
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http://mo.milesplit.com/articles/112437-question-of-the-day-pre-state-race-at-oak-hills
http://mo.milesplit.com/articles/112437-question-of-the-day-pre-state-race-at-oak-hills
10/02/2013 2:00:33 PM
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You mean in early October right??!!B-)
You mean in early October right??!!
10/02/2013 2:25:01 PM
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@Big_Al_2112 Yep, Daniel already texted me on that. A forum discussion topic heading is one of the few mistakes I can't correct.
@Big_Al_2112

Yep, Daniel already texted me on that. A forum discussion topic heading is one of the few mistakes I can't correct.
10/02/2013 9:07:14 PM
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Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?
Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?
10/02/2013 9:44:55 PM
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[quote=JIMKASTEN]Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?[/quote] @JIMKASTEN I would assume trxc is the one making money.
JIMKASTEN wrote:
Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?


@JIMKASTEN

I would assume trxc is the one making money.
10/03/2013 11:06:57 AM
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[quote=JIMKASTEN]Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?[/quote] @JIMKASTEN I can think of thousands of dumber ideas. A few years back when people talked about changing the course for the state meet, one of the advantages that was mentioned was that kids would be able to run the course before state. Now that it's a possibility, all of a sudden it is a dumb idea. I guess people will always complain no matter what.
JIMKASTEN wrote:
Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?


@JIMKASTEN

I can think of thousands of dumber ideas.

A few years back when people talked about changing the course for the state meet, one of the advantages that was mentioned was that kids would be able to run the course before state. Now that it's a possibility, all of a sudden it is a dumb idea. I guess people will always complain no matter what.
10/03/2013 11:23:18 AM
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[quote=JIMKASTEN]Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?[/quote] @JIMKASTEN From the start -- I also thought this meet seemed like a cash grab. Charge big bucks for a meet on the state championship course because some would be willing to pay it to have a chance to run on the state course ahead of time. At the risk of sounding "political" (not a good way to sound these days), it's what happens when things like this are privatized and commercialized. I do think it is an advantage for teams. Not so much for individuals. That said -- I doubt it will help anyone against the Zizzers in November.
JIMKASTEN wrote:
Dumbest idea ever......pay for play on the state corse! Here is a question ......who is making the money of it?


@JIMKASTEN

From the start -- I also thought this meet seemed like a cash grab. Charge big bucks for a meet on the state championship course because some would be willing to pay it to have a chance to run on the state course ahead of time. At the risk of sounding "political" (not a good way to sound these days), it's what happens when things like this are privatized and commercialized. I do think it is an advantage for teams. Not so much for individuals. That said -- I doubt it will help anyone against the Zizzers in November.
10/03/2013 1:20:20 PM
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To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a restriction on the Oak Hills course, aka Rough Hough, hosting high school meets during the season. Don’t think anybody ever tried to do it since the state meet was moved there in 1976, but I am not certain. Do not know if a HS meet was ever ran on AL Gustin when it was the host from 63-75 but I do know that when Forest Park was the state meet site, several HS meets were held there. To the best of my knowledge, Arizona is the only state that will not allow a regular season meet to be held on their state course. The only other state that does not host a regular season meet on their state course is the Michigan LP meet - the Upper Peninsula hosts a separate state meet. The LP meet is held on the Michigan International Raceway. Bet they don’t have much of a parking problem there. Many states hold “pre-state” meets on their courses much like the NCAA will hold their “pre-nationals” in two weeks. Several states use HS campus courses for their state meet sites that hold that school’s invitationals. I suppose the advisory committee could vote that in order to host the state meet, you cannot hold any other HS meets on the course during the season but I would think that would greatly limit the bid process the next time it happens. However, Cash Grab and Cross Country do not seem to go together at the HS level.
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a restriction on the Oak Hills course, aka Rough Hough, hosting high school meets during the season. Don't think anybody ever tried to do it since the state meet was moved there in 1976, but I am not certain. Do not know if a HS meet was ever ran on AL Gustin when it was the host from 63-75 but I do know that when Forest Park was the state meet site, several HS meets were held there.
To the best of my knowledge, Arizona is the only state that will not allow a regular season meet to be held on their state course. The only other state that does not host a regular season meet on their state course is the Michigan LP meet - the Upper Peninsula hosts a separate state meet. The LP meet is held on the Michigan International Raceway. Bet they don't have much of a parking problem there.
Many states hold "pre-state" meets on their courses much like the NCAA will hold their "pre-nationals" in two weeks. Several states use HS campus courses for their state meet sites that hold that school's invitationals.
I suppose the advisory committee could vote that in order to host the state meet, you cannot hold any other HS meets on the course during the season but I would think that would greatly limit the bid process the next time it happens.
However, Cash Grab and Cross Country do not seem to go together at the HS level.
10/03/2013 1:54:59 PM
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@Hays I guess "cash grab" sounds harsh. I just meant it as a term for money making opportunity. There's $11,000 dollars in just team entry fees. Add in individuals (may not be many or any at all), a community race (who knows how much), T-shirts, concessions. No spectator fee -- but that's a pretty good list of big time corporate sponsors. And who's the host school? It just seems like $200 per team is a premium price to preview the state course. I guess I'm just getting old and cranky when things I love make big changes.
@Hays
I guess "cash grab" sounds harsh. I just meant it as a term for money making opportunity.
There's $11,000 dollars in just team entry fees. Add in individuals (may not be many or any at all), a community race (who knows how much), T-shirts, concessions. No spectator fee -- but that's a pretty good list of big time corporate sponsors. And who's the host school? It just seems like $200 per team is a premium price to preview the state course. I guess I'm just getting old and cranky when things I love make big changes.
10/03/2013 2:09:40 PM
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@CoachNT Coach that was one of the arguments ....but you are taking it out of context. The context was this, if we moved the course to somewhere like Joplin or Kansas City as opposed to keeping it in the center of the state ....then travel time would be added to some schools and those schools would not be allowed to leave earlier and hence get to the course to preview it. And the way this thing is set up ...... still does not provide an ideal opportunity for all schools to get there. Giving an advantage to local schools and schools with more money! Just my opinion....plus it takes away the state course mystique! IMO
@CoachNT Coach that was one of the arguments ....but you are taking it out of context. The context was this, if we moved the course to somewhere like Joplin or Kansas City as opposed to keeping it in the center of the state ....then travel time would be added to some schools and those schools would not be allowed to leave earlier and hence get to the course to preview it. And the way this thing is set up ...... still does not provide an ideal opportunity for all schools to get there. Giving an advantage to local schools and schools with more money!
Just my opinion....plus it takes away the state course mystique! IMO
10/03/2013 8:32:04 PM
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@JIMKASTEN I am fairly certain that one of the advantages that people talked about if the state course was moved to Springfield, for example, was that there could be a meet on that course before state. Perhaps my memory fails me. In terms of the high cost per team and the idea that this meet is a cash grab, I think that people fail to understand the very high cost of actually running this meet. Yes, there are good sponsors, but those sponsors aren't paying for the course usage. If you are wondering why it costs so much per team, try calling a golf course and ask how much it would cost to rent out the course for two full days so that thousands of people could run around on it. The golf course needs enough money to cover two days of lost greens fees as well as other lost income, and they need to bring in a little extra money for the extra golf course maintenance that such an event will require. I should also add that TRXC has a genuine love for the sport and wants to see cross country as a premier event in Missouri. They don't put on meets to line their pockets with cash so that they can construct golden fountains in front of their mansions.
@JIMKASTEN
I am fairly certain that one of the advantages that people talked about if the state course was moved to Springfield, for example, was that there could be a meet on that course before state. Perhaps my memory fails me.

In terms of the high cost per team and the idea that this meet is a cash grab, I think that people fail to understand the very high cost of actually running this meet. Yes, there are good sponsors, but those sponsors aren't paying for the course usage. If you are wondering why it costs so much per team, try calling a golf course and ask how much it would cost to rent out the course for two full days so that thousands of people could run around on it. The golf course needs enough money to cover two days of lost greens fees as well as other lost income, and they need to bring in a little extra money for the extra golf course maintenance that such an event will require.

I should also add that TRXC has a genuine love for the sport and wants to see cross country as a premier event in Missouri. They don't put on meets to line their pockets with cash so that they can construct golden fountains in front of their mansions.
10/03/2013 9:42:30 PM
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I was just pointing out in the 25 years I coached XC I did not grab much money, just like any of us old timers, because there was not much to grab. First handful of years I didn’t grab any, if you know what I mean. However, if someone can find a way to grab some in this sport, I say more power to them when I see no harm to this sport. As for the mystique of the state meet, I spoke to Coach Dixon of West Plains a few weeks back about the state qualifying for XC in 1978 in his first year of coaching. That year they had reinstituted the sectional meet (had been called the regional in the early 70s before the sport split into two classes) and his school had to drive to Jefferson Barracks on a Saturday for the district meet, to Sioux Passage on Tuesday for the sectional meet, and to Jeff City on Saturday for the state meet. The mystique then was you could not beat Lindbergh and nobody did that year, either, as the Flyers won their 5th state championship in a row. In 1979, a new mystique was created when West Plains brought home the first of their 13 state championships. Things change.
I was just pointing out in the 25 years I coached XC I did not grab much money, just like any of us old timers, because there was not much to grab. First handful of years I didn't grab any, if you know what I mean. However, if someone can find a way to grab some in this sport, I say more power to them when I see no harm to this sport.
As for the mystique of the state meet, I spoke to Coach Dixon of West Plains a few weeks back about the state qualifying for XC in 1978 in his first year of coaching. That year they had reinstituted the sectional meet (had been called the regional in the early 70s before the sport split into two classes) and his school had to drive to Jefferson Barracks on a Saturday for the district meet, to Sioux Passage on Tuesday for the sectional meet, and to Jeff City on Saturday for the state meet. The mystique then was you could not beat Lindbergh and nobody did that year, either, as the Flyers won their 5th state championship in a row. In 1979, a new mystique was created when West Plains brought home the first of their 13 state championships. Things change.
10/04/2013 12:11:07 AM
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Who is the host school?
Who is the host school?
10/04/2013 8:10:30 AM
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I should also add that TRXC has a genuine love for the sport and wants to see cross country as a premier event in Missouri. They don't put on meets to line their pockets with cash so that they can construct golden fountains in front of their mansions.[/quote] This quote must be one of the 1000! Linn is 20 minutes away from this meet but we will not be able to participate! We host a meet at Linn that draws over 30 MSHSAA schools every year from around central Missouri and a few others from a considerable distance. For a $75.00 entry fee, each team receives a challenging course, three trophies in each division, custom medals with neck ribbons, printed hy-tek results before they leave the meet, medical staff and ambulance on site, watering station, dual chute finish with coaches box around the finish to keep the finish area from being congested, an establish 10 year course, junior high races included, and a group of volunteers that are knowledgable about the sport running the meet. It is hard for me to justify or understand how I am going to receive anything more or different from the Capital Challenge than I do from our own meet and paying $400.00 to participate! I am fortunate to be able to coach a program that makes a yearly trip to the state meet and allows our kids to be familiar with this course each year and don't have to be extorted to pay an ungodly amount of money to do it. Our kids will pay in blood, sweat, and tears to run on this course in November!
I should also add that TRXC has a genuine love for the sport and wants to see cross country as a premier event in Missouri. They don't put on meets to line their pockets with cash so that they can construct golden fountains in front of their mansions.

This quote must be one of the 1000! Linn is 20 minutes away from this meet but we will not be able to participate! We host a meet at Linn that draws over 30 MSHSAA schools every year from around central Missouri and a few others from a considerable distance. For a $75.00 entry fee, each team receives a challenging course, three trophies in each division, custom medals with neck ribbons, printed hy-tek results before they leave the meet, medical staff and ambulance on site, watering station, dual chute finish with coaches box around the finish to keep the finish area from being congested, an establish 10 year course, junior high races included, and a group of volunteers that are knowledgable about the sport running the meet. It is hard for me to justify or understand how I am going to receive anything more or different from the Capital Challenge than I do from our own meet and paying $400.00 to participate! I am fortunate to be able to coach a program that makes a yearly trip to the state meet and allows our kids to be familiar with this course each year and don't have to be extorted to pay an ungodly amount of money to do it. Our kids will pay in blood, sweat, and tears to run on this course in November!
10/04/2013 8:30:03 AM
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Is there a host school?
Is there a host school?
10/04/2013 11:20:41 AM
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@Hillhopper No - TRXC is the meet manager / "host"
@Hillhopper No - TRXC is the meet manager / "host"
10/04/2013 1:37:54 PM
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Just Curious. Thought you had to be a school to host a MSHSAA sanctioned event.
Just Curious. Thought you had to be a school to host a MSHSAA sanctioned event.
10/04/2013 1:48:00 PM
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@Hillhopper Sorry to be unclear. The meet directors are Rich Schilling (TRXC) and Dennis Licklider (Jeff City Coach). I am sure none of the rules are being broken.
@Hillhopper Sorry to be unclear. The meet directors are Rich Schilling (TRXC) and Dennis Licklider (Jeff City Coach). I am sure none of the rules are being broken.
10/04/2013 3:38:56 PM
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@wcarunner Here is the links of XC events sanctioned by MSHSAA: http://www.mshsaa.org/About/SanctionedEvents.aspx?activity=5
@wcarunner
Here is the links of XC events sanctioned by MSHSAA: http://www.mshsaa.org/About/SanctionedEvents.aspx?activity=5

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