All region meets to be "doubles" and on Wednesday or Thursday week before state track meet
10/15/2017 9:31:52 PM
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Administrative requirements: a. Each regional site will either be 1A/2A to be held on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 or 3A/4A to be held on Thursday, April 26, 2016. b. Each regional site will agree to run the FHSAA-required event schedule within this packet. c. FAT timing to .001 for all races. d. Timing/Scoring contractor to be selected in cooperation with FHSAA to meet needs of at-large qualification procedure. (I assume this means region meets timers must have wind gauges...?) e. Official video must be provided from the press box level recording all races on the track for officiating purposes. Schedule for double regions 8:00 AM ALL 3200m Run* Final 12:00 PM ALL 4x800m Relay* Final 2:00 PM ALL 100m Hurdles Preliminaries 2:15 PM ALL 110m Hurdles Preliminaries 2:30 PM ALL 100m Dash Preliminaries 2:50 PM ALL 4x100m Relay Preliminaries 3:20 PM ALL 400m Dash Preliminaries 3:45 PM ALL Adapted 200m** Final 4:05 PM ALL 300m Hurdles Preliminaries 4:40 PM ALL 200m Dash Preliminaries 5:05 PM ALL 800m Run* Final 7:00 PM ALL 100m Hurdles Final 7:10 PM ALL 110m Hurdles Final 7:20 PM ALL 100m Dash Final 7:30 PM ALL 4x100m Relay Final 7:45 PM ALL 400m Dash Final 8:00 PM ALL Adapted 800m** Final 8:30 PM ALL 300m Hurdles Final 8:45 PM ALL 200m Dash Final 9:00 PM ALL 1600m Run* Final 9:25 PM ALL 4x400m Relay (Timed Finals) Final *One heat per class. **One heat combined classes and genders if applicable. All races to be run in order of class. 10:00 PM ALL Team Awards
Administrative requirements:
a. Each regional site will either be 1A/2A to be held on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 or 3A/4A to be held on Thursday, April 26, 2016.
b. Each regional site will agree to run the FHSAA-required event schedule within this packet.
c. FAT timing to .001 for all races.
d. Timing/Scoring contractor to be selected in cooperation with FHSAA to meet needs of at-large qualification procedure. (I assume this means region meets timers must have wind gauges...?)
e. Official video must be provided from the press box level recording all races on the track for officiating purposes.

Schedule for double regions

8:00 AM ALL 3200m Run* Final

12:00 PM ALL 4x800m Relay* Final
2:00 PM ALL 100m Hurdles Preliminaries
2:15 PM ALL 110m Hurdles Preliminaries
2:30 PM ALL 100m Dash Preliminaries
2:50 PM ALL 4x100m Relay Preliminaries
3:20 PM ALL 400m Dash Preliminaries
3:45 PM ALL Adapted 200m** Final
4:05 PM ALL 300m Hurdles Preliminaries
4:40 PM ALL 200m Dash Preliminaries
5:05 PM ALL 800m Run* Final
7:00 PM ALL 100m Hurdles Final
7:10 PM ALL 110m Hurdles Final
7:20 PM ALL 100m Dash Final
7:30 PM ALL 4x100m Relay Final
7:45 PM ALL 400m Dash Final
8:00 PM ALL Adapted 800m** Final
8:30 PM ALL 300m Hurdles Final
8:45 PM ALL 200m Dash Final
9:00 PM ALL 1600m Run* Final
9:25 PM ALL 4x400m Relay (Timed Finals) Final
*One heat per class.
**One heat combined classes and genders if applicable.
All races to be run in order of class.
10:00 PM ALL Team Awards
10/16/2017 9:13:46 AM
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@Coach_Hill @edwardjthompson I've said it at the FACA clinic for years and will never understand the resistance to flip-flopping the 400m and the 4x100m relay. Poor kids have to go straight from the 100m to the 4x100m; it makes no sense whatsoever. Way less athletes do the 100m/400m double or the 100m/300h double than do the 100/4x100m double. I switched it for our Dade County Youth Fair Championship years ago and it's always worked out well. Also, what's the structure for field events?
@Coach_Hill @edwardjthompson I've said it at the FACA clinic for years and will never understand the resistance to flip-flopping the 400m and the 4x100m relay. Poor kids have to go straight from the 100m to the 4x100m; it makes no sense whatsoever. Way less athletes do the 100m/400m double or the 100m/300h double than do the 100/4x100m double. I switched it for our Dade County Youth Fair Championship years ago and it's always worked out well.

Also, what's the structure for field events?
10/16/2017 9:26:23 AM
Coach
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 163
I understand your concerns about the 100m and 4x100m. We are willing to add some time in between those events. Remember, like at the state meet, there will be added recovery time (at least 3 heats) in between those two races for anyone doing both in the finals and 6 heats in the preliminaries. There's a good amount of recovery time for those runners. The bid packet is linked below if you're interested in taking a look. The entire thought process for regions has centered on ensuring a level playing field for the addition of at-large entries to state. https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/2017-18_regional_host_request.docx
I understand your concerns about the 100m and 4x100m. We are willing to add some time in between those events. Remember, like at the state meet, there will be added recovery time (at least 3 heats) in between those two races for anyone doing both in the finals and 6 heats in the preliminaries. There's a good amount of recovery time for those runners. The bid packet is linked below if you're interested in taking a look. The entire thought process for regions has centered on ensuring a level playing field for the addition of at-large entries to state.

https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/2017-18_regional_host_request.docx
10/16/2017 9:43:23 AM
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Some questions / concerns. note d.- I hope this is the contractors ability to go to the .001 for times to aid with the at-large qualifying. Wind gauges should be definitely be used for the sprints but I am very concerned if the plan is to "adjust" your at-large qualifiers because of wind readings in the sprints or because a region is very windy trying to adjust the times for non wind gauge (400m and up) events. A very slippery slope as some would say on that. note e.- How exactly is the video to be used? Any call made from a video had better be "irrefutable" as our NFL friends say. Why must the region be a double region if you adhere to the time schedule noted? If the concern is equal rest times across the regions, sticking to the schedule even in a single region would accomplish that. I have real concern that regions are going to be sent to a place to do a double region just to do it and that the facility won't be adequate or so far away and outside of the actual region area that it makes travel for many a nightmare. Not on the track itself but for things like room for teams to set up camp (they are there for well over 12 hours) or for parking. As great as the job done by the host was and the action on the track exhilarating for us last year, it didn't make up for the fact that there was not adequate room for team camps and that some had to park nearly a mile away and walk to the facility; a couple even getting tickets for parking in a wrong area. And the north end of our region had over 3 hours travel to a facility not even in the region (we are at the south end of our region geographically and it was nearly an hour south for us). I would love to host our region this year but our facility for parking and room for the team camps would be a major issue trying to host a double. Our grounds are not like they were back when the State Meet was here. Brantley Barr Coral Springs High
Some questions / concerns.

note d.- I hope this is the contractors ability to go to the .001 for times to aid with the at-large qualifying. Wind gauges should be definitely be used for the sprints but I am very concerned if the plan is to "adjust" your at-large qualifiers because of wind readings in the sprints or because a region is very windy trying to adjust the times for non wind gauge (400m and up) events. A very slippery slope as some would say on that.

note e.- How exactly is the video to be used? Any call made from a video had better be "irrefutable" as our NFL friends say.

Why must the region be a double region if you adhere to the time schedule noted? If the concern is equal rest times across the regions, sticking to the schedule even in a single region would accomplish that. I have real concern that regions are going to be sent to a place to do a double region just to do it and that the facility won't be adequate or so far away and outside of the actual region area that it makes travel for many a nightmare. Not on the track itself but for things like room for teams to set up camp (they are there for well over 12 hours) or for parking. As great as the job done by the host was and the action on the track exhilarating for us last year, it didn't make up for the fact that there was not adequate room for team camps and that some had to park nearly a mile away and walk to the facility; a couple even getting tickets for parking in a wrong area. And the north end of our region had over 3 hours travel to a facility not even in the region (we are at the south end of our region geographically and it was nearly an hour south for us). I would love to host our region this year but our facility for parking and room for the team camps would be a major issue trying to host a double. Our grounds are not like they were back when the State Meet was here.

Brantley Barr
Coral Springs High
10/16/2017 11:24:28 AM
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@edwardjthompson So does 3AR1 and 4AR1 have to be run together? @CoachBarr From my converstaion with Mr. Thompson, the wind reading will not matter, it is only for record purposes. Meaning a 10.85 with 6.4 tailwind is still going to advance over a 10.86 that runs into a 4.8 headwind.
@edwardjthompson So does 3AR1 and 4AR1 have to be run together?

@CoachBarr From my converstaion with Mr. Thompson, the wind reading will not matter, it is only for record purposes. Meaning a 10.85 with 6.4 tailwind is still going to advance over a 10.86 that runs into a 4.8 headwind.
10/16/2017 11:48:29 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Sorry for any confusion on using wind reading conversion for at large advancement. I was guessing thus the "?".
Sorry for any confusion on using wind reading conversion for at large advancement. I was guessing thus the "?".
10/16/2017 11:53:22 AM
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@Coach_Hill I like the Video replay available. It was available last year at the state meet as well. However, why have it if its not used to correct a random call from the infield by a umpire with his back turned to the race. The video just becomes a sore spot with the participants as they see their hard work stolen from them for STATE TITLES. THIS exact example happened multiple times last year at the State Meet. Rewrite the rule book to overturn bad calls made by infield umpires with video help I say.
@Coach_Hill I like the Video replay available. It was available last year at the state meet as well. However, why have it if its not used to correct a random call from the infield by a umpire with his back turned to the race. The video just becomes a sore spot with the participants as they see their hard work stolen from them for STATE TITLES. THIS exact example happened multiple times last year at the State Meet. Rewrite the rule book to overturn bad calls made by infield umpires with video help I say.
10/16/2017 12:37:09 PM
Coach
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 163
@LFCSumner3 Yes, sir. 1A and 2A are paired together at each region on Wed. and 3A and 4A paired together on Thursday. We will flip the meet days in 2019.
@LFCSumner3

Yes, sir. 1A and 2A are paired together at each region on Wed. and 3A and 4A paired together on Thursday. We will flip the meet days in 2019.
10/16/2017 12:47:17 PM
Coach
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 147
Region 1, for both 3A, and 4A, will include: Pensacola FWB/Niceville Tallahassee Jacksonville St.Augustine Gainesville/Ocala Palm Coast Daytona Beach Sanford/ Seminole County Orlando
Region 1, for both 3A, and 4A, will include:
Pensacola
FWB/Niceville
Tallahassee
Jacksonville
St.Augustine
Gainesville/Ocala
Palm Coast
Daytona Beach
Sanford/ Seminole County
Orlando
10/16/2017 12:53:12 PM
Coach
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 163
Looks like my reply to Coach Barr was deleted from the thread. Here's the link to the Region Host application: https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/2017-18_regional_host_request.docx Here's the link to the updated FHSAA Track & Field Manual: https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/updated_track_manual_post-adac_-_temp.pdf
Looks like my reply to Coach Barr was deleted from the thread. Here's the link to the Region Host application:

https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/2017-18_regional_host_request.docx

Here's the link to the updated FHSAA Track & Field Manual:

https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/orig_uploads/sports/track-field/archives/2017-18/updated_track_manual_post-adac_-_temp.pdf
10/16/2017 12:57:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
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That is too long a day for 1600/3200 double? What is wrong with Saturdays for meets, a lot of testing goes on that time of year!
That is too long a day for 1600/3200 double? What is wrong with Saturdays for meets, a lot of testing goes on that time of year!
10/16/2017 1:44:32 PM
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For me as a coach, the possibility of having to pay for a trip for possibly 50+ kids to travel Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday is scary. That would be 3 days out of school. 2 hotel nights and 3 days of rental vehicles. Then do it again the very next week for those that qualify for state. I understand the need in some areas to double up, but there are others that it creates a MASSIVE financial burden.
For me as a coach, the possibility of having to pay for a trip for possibly 50+ kids to travel Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday is scary. That would be 3 days out of school. 2 hotel nights and 3 days of rental vehicles. Then do it again the very next week for those that qualify for state.

I understand the need in some areas to double up, but there are others that it creates a MASSIVE financial burden.
10/16/2017 2:49:02 PM
Coach
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Just establish a time schedule that regions must follow. I don't think it's necessary to double up regions. That strains facilities that are already under a lot of pressure to handle so many athletes and teams in regards to things like parking, restrooms, and space for all of those teams and their tents.
Just establish a time schedule that regions must follow. I don't think it's necessary to double up regions. That strains facilities that are already under a lot of pressure to handle so many athletes and teams in regards to things like parking, restrooms, and space for all of those teams and their tents.
10/16/2017 2:58:26 PM
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@edwardjthompson So you're saying my kid will have to miss 3 days of school to attend a regional track meet? And the schools that are struggling for funding as it is will have to pay for three nights of lodging, transportation and food? Some may get lucky and not have to do this but if the meets in Orlando a team from Pensacola is 7 hours away. Orlando, Jax, panhandle teams attending a meet at he same location on a school day? This is not acceptable.
@edwardjthompson So you're saying my kid will have to miss 3 days of school to attend a regional track meet? And the schools that are struggling for funding as it is will have to pay for three nights of lodging, transportation and food? Some may get lucky and not have to do this but if the meets in Orlando a team from Pensacola is 7 hours away. Orlando, Jax, panhandle teams attending a meet at he same location on a school day? This is not acceptable.
10/16/2017 3:02:33 PM
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@Hamilax That comment was made by @LFCSumner3
@Hamilax That comment was made by @LFCSumner3
10/16/2017 3:07:22 PM
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@edwardjthompson You're telling everyone that by indicating 3A and 4A have to run together.
@edwardjthompson You're telling everyone that by indicating 3A and 4A have to run together.
10/16/2017 3:13:11 PM
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@edwardjthompson If the meet is in Orlando or Jax or Tally etc etc how do you expect teams to not have to miss 3 days? You want kids driving home 6 hours at night after leaving a meet at 10:30? You want teams leaving at 1 am to make the 8 am race, stay all day, leave at 10:30 and arrive back home at 4 am?
@edwardjthompson If the meet is in Orlando or Jax or Tally etc etc how do you expect teams to not have to miss 3 days? You want kids driving home 6 hours at night after leaving a meet at 10:30? You want teams leaving at 1 am to make the 8 am race, stay all day, leave at 10:30 and arrive back home at 4 am?
10/16/2017 3:17:26 PM
Coach
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We up here in the Panhandle are so far away that we have a different time zone. Doubling up Regionals 3A/4A is going to destroy us financially. Our school board is going to hit the roof. We don't even have a facility up here that would meet the criteria to host...so we must travel.
We up here in the Panhandle are so far away that we have a different time zone. Doubling up Regionals 3A/4A is going to destroy us financially. Our school board is going to hit the roof. We don't even have a facility up here that would meet the criteria to host...so we must travel.
10/16/2017 3:30:35 PM
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@Hamilax You can reach me at ethompson@fhsaa.org
@Hamilax You can reach me at ethompson@fhsaa.org
10/16/2017 3:34:45 PM
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[quote=edwardjthompson]The entire thought process for regions has centered on ensuring a level playing field for the addition of at-large entries to state.[/quote] @edwardjthompson Except that, as I have stated for years, is IMPOSSIBLE. While you can control day of the week and a time schedule, which have some small bearing on performances, you cannot control much larger performance factors like weather (i.e. wind, temperature, humidity, rain, etc.). And that's not accounting for all other factors ranging from track surface, to coaching strategies, to athletes who are required to travel, etc. In a sport of SEVENTEEN EVENTS, where fractions of a second / inch matter in most of the events, too many factors are at play. Unfortunately you CANNOT COMPARE different tracks / weather conditions in different geographical locations in the state, even if on the same day and time schedule. And finally, NOTHING can replace a head-to-head race. Just looking and comparing times IS NOT an equal measuring stick. If that was the case, then we shouldn't even have races, and we should just award the state medals to athletes with season best performances. I guess the mindset here is just to advance as many kids to state at possible and hope the cream rises to the top. In my opinion, this is just another way of catering to the millennial mindset of everyone being a winner. After all, now the top 96 athletes (per event) are qualifying to state when combining all classes. Sure seems like being a state qualifier is more watered down than ever before. Call my thinking old school, but I'm just not a fan of this new age mindset. Cheers to everyone who missed my occasional forum rants.
dwardjthompson wrote:
The entire thought process for regions has centered on ensuring a level playing field for the addition of at-large entries to state.


@edwardjthompson Except that, as I have stated for years, is IMPOSSIBLE. While you can control day of the week and a time schedule, which have some small bearing on performances, you cannot control much larger performance factors like weather (i.e. wind, temperature, humidity, rain, etc.). And that's not accounting for all other factors ranging from track surface, to coaching strategies, to athletes who are required to travel, etc. In a sport of SEVENTEEN EVENTS, where fractions of a second / inch matter in most of the events, too many factors are at play.

Unfortunately you CANNOT COMPARE different tracks / weather conditions in different geographical locations in the state, even if on the same day and time schedule. And finally, NOTHING can replace a head-to-head race. Just looking and comparing times IS NOT an equal measuring stick. If that was the case, then we shouldn't even have races, and we should just award the state medals to athletes with season best performances.

I guess the mindset here is just to advance as many kids to state at possible and hope the cream rises to the top. In my opinion, this is just another way of catering to the millennial mindset of everyone being a winner. After all, now the top 96 athletes (per event) are qualifying to state when combining all classes. Sure seems like being a state qualifier is more watered down than ever before. Call my thinking old school, but I'm just not a fan of this new age mindset.

Cheers to everyone who missed my occasional forum rants.

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